Existence of Demons (and Angels)

Lets keep our focus on the Demons and the Angels. I have had experiences which lead me to believe that these entities COULD exist, and personally thought so, yet I cannot prove my hypothesis to any general public satisfaction. How many of you have had a supernatural encounter?(or thought that you did?)Here again is our Topic starter: Xenocrates has read some good books on the subject. This topic is similar to our other topic, But as this one is new, lets keep our focus on the possibility of the existance of Demons and Angels. Much has been written about them. Any comments?This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 12-06-2004 04:48 PM

Personally, I would feel more comfortable attributing some credit to a force or entity greater than myself. I am not the Creator/definer of this universe, nor will I or any human ever be.

First off, I would like to remind everyone that our topic should focus on Angels and Demons. Any other whimsical incorporeal entities can be discussed in the thread on incorporeal spirits.
Xenocrates, often in these forums you may experience a clash of the worldviews with others. To some, reality is an absolute. Truth is an absolute. As a believer, God is an absolute. This world view presupposes that God is real no matter what anyone else believes or thinks.The contrary world view that you will meet states that truth is relative to the individual and that the entire universe is in fact relative, defined only by provable and verifiable natural laws which we learn more about each day. The yardstick of authority is human wisdom.As believers, we will never convince relativists that our absolute values and beliefs are true. One consolation that you will find is that God, if He is alive, real, and omnipotant as we believe, will Himself orchestrate the establishment of His absolute presence and will so that every knee will indeed bow one way or another some day.In the meantime, you and I need to learn how to coexist with those who believe entirely differently than we do. The victory is ours yet the battle is surely the Lords. I believe in Demons and I believe that we as humans deal with them occasionally. When you find yourself as a believer in a debate that causes you to lose your joy and your rational behavior, it could be that demons are directly or indirectly involved. It does not matter if everyone believes this or agrees with it. It only matters to you as a believer what is happening to you and how you can get your joy and security back.

There are many ways of looking at a belief system.

I dunno. I went through the L.S.D. Mushroom era,and I know how the substances work. There is more exposure to different stimulus and perceptions for sure...but I am not convinced that our perception = what is actually real. I have heard unseen and unknown voices while not tripping. I have had friends who were tripping and had a host of encounters. So was it all the drugs? Like I said, for me the conclusion Isn't.

What did they look like? Did they talk to you? Did anyone else see them? How did you feel while you were experiencing them?

C'mon! IF these entities were truly supernatural and IF the Bible had it right about the fact of a spiritual war being a reality THEN these "things" not only would be uncooperative but they would be actively hostile! I realize that we can only discuss these possibilities on a theoretical level but, unlike pink elephants, there is some historical credence for consideration of these supernatural claims.As for the peer pressure theory? Lets assume that for every story like mine that is undeniably true to the individual, 3 more are made up elaborations to "fit in" with the group. This still leaves plenty of stories that are not made up. At best, they are cases of mistaken assumption UNLESS we actually experienced the supernatural.

I have, of course. (I used to drink a fair amount of beer and whatnot)I have also experienced what I believe to be a supernatural event.
In this case, I heard several voices at once...clear as day. Two others also heard them, and it was established that nobody tricked anybody else.(Unless they were very good at it and have said nothing about it for five years...an unlikely scenario)You cannot say with 100% certainty that such entities do not exist. Science is not the final arbitrator of every event in life.
Humans are logical and emotional.

And not only do I agree, but I might point out that there are more believers than a few freaked out whackos.Again, science is not the only arbitrator in all minds. To some, it is Gospel, however.More power to you...now go invent something!

Hi, Spector....welcome to EvC. We go around and around here on numerous topics...occasionally we even make sense!You said: Tell us more! When was this in the paper? Can we look up the article online??I believe you, by the way. I bet that your Mom has a lot of Faith because of what happened and probably even before that, huh?This message has been edited by Phatboy, 04-12-2005 12:35 PM

It is true that I am positively reinforcing her beliefs. I suppose that I am not being a detached, logical and rational observer, am I?I do not dismiss science and rationality except when every attempt is made to quench someones faith through use of same.I gotta stick up for what I believe, as do you.

OK Good point. I have been accused of ignoring facts and sticking with beliefs...which I occasionally do.It is all probably a lot less spectacular than I imagine, anyway.I DO hold fast to my beliefs, however. It will take more than human logic and wisdom to change my worldview.Maybe an antipsychotic drug will do the trick,eh? *ponders what was said...* "Away from me Satan! Jesus, please bless Schraf and Faith and...*pause* even Rrhain!"This message has been edited by Phatboy, 04-17-2005 07:01 AM

Where do you find a zoroastrian church anyway??I believe the part about demons in the heirarchy!In my belief, demons exist and are more likely to bother high ranking people such as Presidents and Popes rather than to possess the neighbor who then is "out to get you".I don't go looking for demons, however. That would be as ludicrous as looking for UFO's, whom I believe to actually be demonic manifestations in the documented cases.
After all, in the context of my belief, Jesus is the Lord of the Universe. Why then, would UFO aliens staunchly avoid mentioning Him?

Miracles are contrary to the known laws of the universe.
God never breaks laws. When God acts, His action is in and of itself a law. The law of God. Laws do not exist without God. Why? Because ideas do not exist without God. Why? Because ideas are expressions of intelligence. Human wisdom is not the source of explaining a universe. Why? Because creation can only be explained by a Creator.
If human wisdom was our source, we would be creators. Creators of ideas, concepts, explanations, and words themselves.The Bible says that in the beginning was the word. Words are spoken truth or explanations of reality. One thing that we may agree on. We as humans were not in the beginning.