Spirits and other incorporial things

No problem Crash.
At another time and place I would be happy to discuss dark matter with you. That is if I knew enough about it to make the discussion meaningful.PY

Hi Hangdawg. Thanks for the compliment. Unfortunately, my own experience and that of others who have also experienced similar things, is all we really have to go on. I wish it were otherwise but it just isn't.As far as having volition in my own experience? I have actually come across several different "kinds" (there's that word again) of ghosts/spirits.First there are the unexplained noises and things moving about on their own. Stuff turning on and off on its own. Furniture shifting.
These things never seemed to me to be really "inteligent". There was no sense of purpose if you know what I mean.Second there are the visions and apparitions kind of ghost. This is your typical "white lady" that is seen drifting along a deserted lane or something. I have seen a number of these. Again there doesn't seem to be an inteligence involved. Maybe we are seeing things that are "imprinted memories" or some such thing. I don't really know.Next there is the kind of stuff that happens when you mess with a Ouiji board. Most of the time this just results in imagined results just as was suggested on this thread earlier. Sometimes, it would appear that the contact is real though. This definitely seems to have some kind of intelligence. I think some of the things contacted in this way are good. Some are indifferent and some are downright nasty. Just like people really.And yes, I too have been "attacked" by these things. I won't launch into any more anecdotes here but I will just say that I was involved in what can only be described as a running battle with one of the particularly nasty ones for several years. My wife and kids were also involved in this even though it started well before I knew her.There have been many times when I am sitting and thinking about this that I almost manage to convince myself that I have been imagining all this. I try to keep as skeptical an outlook as possible and actively search for all other possible explanations. But then something happens that just blows all that away again. I just have to accept that there is something really going on and deal with it.I personally don't relate any of this stuff to demons, angels or any religious stuff regarding to higher powers but I can undrestand why many people do see it that way. I beleive (about the only thing I will ever admit to beleiving) that one day, this stuff will be understood from a scientific point of view.My only faith as I see it is that human inquisitiveness will eventually solve all the mysterys. I just hope it happens in my lifetime.PY

Hey Lam What's your point? I already stated that didn't I? However, if you had suggested that we look for dark matter 50 years ago then you would have been the one who was thought of as the "crazy man"It may be a theory now but it would have been firmly in the realms of the crackpot ghost story back then.That is the entire thrust of my point here. New stuff is discovered all the time. Completely wacky weird stuff that never would have been entertained for a second by the "unelightened" in the old days. After a phenomena is discovered by physical evidence then the existing theories are examined and ammended as necessary to bring the new discovery "into the fold" (so to speak).
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. It is the way science works. It is the way it has to work short of knowing everything all along.Just because nobody has any rock solid evidence of the supernatural and that nobody has ever bothered to form a viable theory as to its nature yet, doesn't mean that they won't ever do so.One day we will figure it out.PY

OK I can accept that. I did actually think I was ME though but I could be wrong there I guess. Was it? Well there's something else that I learned today. Make it 500 then. Either way I think you agree on the point. Cool That would be fun. I think most unicorns are actually flourescent green though. Now here I don't really agree with you. There are a bunch of things (UFO sightings included) that have been officially classified as unexplained.
I don't expect you to beleive every word I say. As I have said before. I am waiting for a reasonable explanation for my experiences and those of others.Some "eyewitness" reports may well be imagined, exagerated or even just plain fraudulent. I will be the first to admit that this could even extend to most of them. Others like my own are impossible to verify.So where does that leave us?I don't know. I fully understand your skepticism. I would just like to see some real effort to find out what is going on instead of offhand dismissals. I watch all the TV shows on paranormal stuff and I find that they are either people trying to prove the existence of the supernatural or people trying to disprove it.In the former case, "beleivers" tend to take stuff at face value or use methods which are clearly unscientific.In the second, "unbeleivers" tend to use whatever methods they can find to discredit it while ignoring possible methods that could validate the research. real scientists simply beleive it is impossible based on incomplete knowlegde of the subject, then just dismiss it as you are doing. These people generally aren't even willing to investigate for themselves.In short both sides appear to have an agenda.
The only thing I have never seen is a genuine project to investigate paranormal activity of any kind, using all available research tools and run by unbiased researchers.PY

Lam suggested the same thing.I will give it some serious thought but to be quite honest I doubt that I will come up with anything new that hasn't been attempted before.As Ifen said, each feild has their own experts. Unfortunately I am not an expert in Paranormal investigation. I wouldn't know where to start.Give me a chunk of rock, an ancient artifact or a water sample and I will happily give you a complete breakdown of its chemical composition. I have the tools for that. What I don't have is Ghostbuster stuff like PKE meters or those particle accelerator backpacks.If I manage to come up with an experiment then you guys will be the first to know.PY