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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Faith and Belief ⇒

If you believe in god, you have to believe in leprechauns.

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Author Topic:   If you believe in god, you have to believe in leprechauns.
Taqless
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003

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Message 125 of 150 (166791)
12-09-2004 11:30 PM 		Reply to: Message 97 by robinrohan
12-09-2004 2:17 AM

Which cause & effect?
If it "occurred" then something caused it to occur.
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Or "someone"? Look:
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1) I'm a klutz, and I accidentally knock a glass of water over...was it done with purpose...nope just a klutz....no inference of "intelligence".
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2) I wanna be an ass so I purposely spill molasses onto my friends brand new carpet....arguably some sort of intelligence inferred(sp?).
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NOW, which category does your cause fit into? the klutz or the ass?
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Cause IS NOT synonymous with purpose...something we humans tend to forget.
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 Message 97 by robinrohan, posted 12-09-2004 2:17 AM robinrohan has replied
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Taqless
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003

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Message 129 of 150 (166817)
12-10-2004 12:39 AM 		Reply to: Message 126 by robinrohan
12-10-2004 12:19 AM

Re: Which cause & effect?
robinrohan writes:
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If it "occurred" then something caused it to occur.
{bold added by me}
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Then
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robinrohan writes:
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Who said anything aobut purpose?
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Were you or were you not hinting that God (capital 'G') "caused" the Big Bang? If so, your stuck on thinking that there must be a purposeful causal effect. If not, then carry on.
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Taqless
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003

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Message 137 of 150 (166941)
12-10-2004 11:06 AM 		Reply to: Message 130 by robinrohan
12-10-2004 1:43 AM

Re: Which cause & effect?
The First Cause is X.
You cannot establish a "First Cause". The assumption you make here is that time is linear i.e. a beginning and an end. Where is your support for this?
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X does not exist in space and time.
Which "space" and which "time"? You are using arbitrary definitions.
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X has always existed.
This is an assertion...if something/someone exists outside of space and time, how does that allow you to use this definition of existence?
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That's the only qualities we can assign to X.
You can't even apply this further.
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Not that I want to lend credence, but how does this prevent this entire event from being caused by a leprechaun...I mean call it whatever you want. As Mike says you have disproven nothing.
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Taqless
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003

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Message 141 of 150 (166993)
12-10-2004 3:32 PM 		Reply to: Message 139 by 1.61803
12-10-2004 11:32 AM

Re: Which cause & effect?
Well, that was more concise than my reply.
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