Why I am creationist

no, look, i quoted the bible. i'll do it again:

quote:

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Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

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adam ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. did he die that same day, or did he live? chapter and verse? according to the bible, we've never been immortal, we were always designed to die. that's what genesis says. this doesn't present any problems to your view? the serpent told the truth. he wasn't against god, he just let god's secret out. this is impossible if you believe in an omnipotent god. made by god, from the dust of the earth, like all the other animals in the garden. it explains why serpents have no legs. does satan have no legs? like putting satan in the garden of eden. no, you just sound silly.

The deal with most of this is preety clear if you take the time to RESEARCH and THINK.
Did your parents punish you when you did something bad. This is just the same thing here. Since we learn most of how to act when we are infants we are mostly punished then when we do wrong. The same can be said about humanity. When humanity was in its infantcy it did not obey God cause it did not fear God and God taught humanity that he is worthy of fear and obedience. Alot of the time thogh he saves people from there own stupid mistakes. Like the towere of babel. You cant build a stairway up to heaven. God didnt slow there progress but speed it up. And if they had been alowed to do that who knows what other quake ideas they might have come up with. They might have enede up killing themselves. If you read on you will find out that the people of egypt liked them. It was pharoh who didnt. And they asked for it not steal it. The people gave of there own free will. This was land promised to Abraham and his decidents. Cause the children are taught by the parents to be like them.
God is jelous cause we refuse him the attention he DESERVES.
Humanitys form of jelousy is very immature when compared to God's. Usually the firstborn is the oldest and may not be a child. Just cause you make him out to be.
You hear what you want and dismiss what you dont.This message has been edited by Swift, 12-12-2004 06:08 PM

what was i arguing? god does that sometimes, sure. sometimes it's arbitrary. god makes the rules. re-read the first dozen or so chapters in genesis. did god issue commands for man to obey? why was the tower of babel destroyed? quote the bible for me, what does it say? why can't you build a stairway to heaven? they certainly seemed to be doing well before god came along. or so the story goes. and we have skyskrapers now that are many times as tall as babel ever was, or was ever going to be. we didn't need all of humanity to build them, and language didn't get in the way. why doesn't god strike down the cn tower in toronto? ever lend something to a neighbor and have them move out the next day? the egyptians didn't know they were leaving. it was borrowing with the pretext of keeping by deception. that's stealing.the things they stole, btw, later comprised the tabernacle. ishmael or isaac?do you honestly think that verses about the promised land don't have anything to do with the war that has been the middle east for the last 5000 years or so? "visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children"punishing children for their parents' sins. go back and rethink your argument, because that's what the bible says. pharoah, being pharoah, was probably also a firstborn. if he was ramses ii, as is suggested by the text in chapter 1, then he was the firstborn son of his father seti i.clearly, not EVERY firstborn son was struck down in the land of egypt.and the first born is always the oldest, silly. ok. no, the bible does. trust me, if i had my say in the matter, i'd believe in a good only capable of good, and love, and compassion. but that's not omnipotence, and that's not the way the world has to take shape. why then did you choose to address only a small selection of my points? and why are your posts in the other thread getting so much smaller while you ignore more and more?all but one of those points come from genesis and exodus. the other one comes from chronicles. it's not a wide reading of the bible at all. there are other points about god to be addressed. if a really believed god was just evil i probably wouldn't LIKE HIM as much as i do. or maybe i wouldn't even believe in him. those points were listed to demonstrate another greater point: the bible portrays god in diverse and contradictory ways. one set of things that god is described as doing really turns off the unbelievers.yes, i am ignoring a whole set of things for the purposes of this debate, but that's the idea. i'm trying to point out the stuff that people don't like. if YOU don't like these ideas about god, or they offend you in some way, take it up with the people who wrote the books.personally, i whole-heartedly believe that god works for the greater good, even using things we'd see as evil, as part of a master plan devised out of love. so what if god burns down a church filled with 14 year old girls practicing for a choir recetal? maybe it's to stop one of them commiting some greater act of evil. i've heard the holocaust argued as preventing germany from having the atomic bomb -- if they were just out take over land instead of expansion AND killing jews, we'd have really been screwed because the people who made the atomic bombs in the us were exiled german jews.would you dare the argue that it is not within god's power to turn and even use such evil events for his will of greater good? it's a relatively simple belief in providence; i know i certainly didn't invent.in fact, i'm pretty positive it can be shown in genesis, before the dualistic concept of god versus the devil came about.

I accept evolution on authority, not knowing a lot about it.But I wanted to ask anyone, what do you think is the most solid evidence for evolution?

There is a whole thread on this, I'll edit in when I find it.It is off topic here.

Sorry. I didn't want to start a whole new topic.

It turns out that there is a lot to say about this. LOL, you may notice that some of us have a lot to say about almost anything (see the threads on a trilogy of movies for example).I think the old thread is closed so I'm having trouble finding it.Why not try opening a thread?Title: The Best Evidence for EvolutionBody: There may be a great deal of evidence for evolution but I am interesting in focussing as much as possible. Would individuals supply their views on what the best evidence for evolution is when they are restricted to the contest type of thing like "in 25 words or less"

Keep checking back as I will edit in as I find them:
http://< !--UB EvC Forum: What convinced you of Evolution? -->http://EvC Forum: What convinced you of Evolution?< !--UE-->However that one seems to have gotten off topic very quickly. Empirical Evidence for Evolutionmmmm actually I think you should open the topicIt needs to be covered in a nice focussed way. And I'm busting to put my two cents worth in.

Not very clear.

I agree, try opening that topic. I'll find a friend to promote it , and he'll try to keep it on topic.

You mean start a new topic? OK. I'll try to be very "unloaded" with my terms. I'll do it in a half hour or so.

Would my post 67 do it? You could add what ever you wanted.Expressing you view in the OP is a good idea anyway, loaded or not. So people can understand where you are and how they should answer.

This is my first post. I'm not particularly convinced this is a worthwhile endeavor. I tend to argue unlovingly a bit easily (not such a good witness to my faith). Further, my intuition from peeking around the boards is that my opinion isn't particularly welcome. We shall see.Why I am a Creationist...1. FaithFaith is why I am a creationist. Of course, there is much unpacking to be done. The Bible defines faith in an interesting way. Yes, I understand it is not the barometer of some. Hebrews 11:1 says, "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."So we cannot see God and prove He exists with our limited, scientific, human toolbox, but there is something interesting that stems out of a vibrant faith in God as a loving creator. I'll just throw out several verses to illustrate a running theme through the Bible:----------
Mat 9:22 Jesus turned, and seeing her he said, "Take heart, daughter; your faith has made you well." And instantly the woman was made well.Mat 9:29 Then he touched their eyes, saying, "According to your faith be it done to you."Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered her, "O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed instantly.
Mat 21:22 And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith."
----------The point is this: those who have a faith in God as our Creator and Jesus Christ as the Son of God do indeed see His presence. Conversely to God healing and showing miraculous things to those who have faith in Him, the opposite is true for those who do not have faith in Him. Faith is a required element to communion with God. It is to this that true believers in God will all attest.Now, we can go further, I think, and ask whether this is a blind faith or a reasonable one. In some ways, most creationists here are probably really arguing that their faith is not a blind one. And to that I agree. I think it is foolishness to look at this world and mistake it for something random. But, those who do not believe find their science is more convincing otherwise I suppose. The point is this, though, God is real. Those with faith in God KNOW HE IS REAL.The reality is that science doesn't answer everything. Science is something we made up. That is why we have gotten so much science wrong through the ages. But creation is not made up. God made us and defined who we are. We can choose to believe that and magnify Him through the awe that follows from our increased understanding of just how miraculous His creation is. Or, we can use this man-made construct to define a different reality, one which denies God.

Maestro232,Welcome to EvC! I hope you find subjects to interest you, and get something out of the discussions here.Adminssimo Hambre

Sounds a reasonable position to me.