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Author Topic:   Mormon Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Justice
Inactive Junior Member


Message 151 of 264 (167735)
12-13-2004 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by AdminNosy
12-13-2004 1:52 PM


Re: Blue boxes
Thanks.
Your a great Help.

Armaggeddon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by AdminNosy, posted 12-13-2004 1:52 PM AdminNosy has not replied

  
Justice
Inactive Junior Member


Message 152 of 264 (167771)
12-13-2004 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Legend
12-12-2004 9:17 AM


Re: Pick up at the other BoM thread ?
It's funny how you try to discredit the Book of Mormon by naming it BOM. you might as well just call the Bible B.

Armaggeddon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Legend, posted 12-12-2004 9:17 AM Legend has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Legend, posted 12-13-2004 4:59 PM Justice has replied
 Message 156 by Nighttrain, posted 12-14-2004 4:11 AM Justice has not replied
 Message 158 by arachnophilia, posted 12-14-2004 5:17 AM Justice has not replied
 Message 162 by nator, posted 12-14-2004 9:17 AM Justice has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 153 of 264 (167779)
12-13-2004 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Justice
12-13-2004 4:29 PM


Re: Pick up at the other BoM thread ?
I didn't try to discredit the Book of Mormon by naming it BoM, I just write it like that because it saves time and typing. If that offends you, I'll call it by its full name from now on.
** EDIT ** removed last sentence as I just saw a reply to me in Message 147
This message has been edited by Legend, 12-13-2004 05:03 PM

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Justice, posted 12-13-2004 4:29 PM Justice has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Justice, posted 12-14-2004 6:09 PM Legend has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 154 of 264 (167787)
12-13-2004 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by Justice
12-13-2004 1:41 PM


Re: Question
Then why does the bible say there is only one God ?!
"Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared [it]? ye [are] even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any]." (Isaiah 44:8 )
** EDIT - first sentence for clarity
This message has been edited by Legend, 12-13-2004 05:28 PM

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Justice, posted 12-13-2004 1:41 PM Justice has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Justice, posted 12-14-2004 6:23 PM Legend has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 155 of 264 (167796)
12-13-2004 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Justice
12-13-2004 1:45 PM


Re: Question
but the Bible says there haven't been any prophets since John:
"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." ( Luke 16:16 )
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" (Hebrews 1:1-2)
So the Bible says there is no living prophet!
don't you believe the word of God?

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Justice, posted 12-13-2004 1:45 PM Justice has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Justice, posted 12-14-2004 6:40 PM Legend has replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 156 of 264 (167978)
12-14-2004 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Justice
12-13-2004 4:29 PM


Re: Pick up at the other BoM thread ?
Get off your high horse. BOM is no more derogatory than talking of the KJV, RSV,NEB, LXX or MT.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Justice, posted 12-13-2004 4:29 PM Justice has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 157 of 264 (167981)
12-14-2004 5:15 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by Justice
12-13-2004 1:17 PM


Re: Question
listen to what you just said.
i do. i only post here because i like to hear myself talk. wait, nevermind, that doesn't make any sense. i asked a question about your religion, as i am not too familiar with the mormon faith. i only dated a mormon for 6 or 7 months, and the topic didn't come up too often.
(do you think that because you used the word "elohym", that you think you know god?)
no, but yes in a way. i do think i know god about as well as i can at this point in my life, and probably better than most.
now, i asked a simple question. do you interpret christ to be a member of this group, the sons of god(s), along with satan? and if so, do you interpret this group as lesser gods, or angels, or what? i'm not insulting anyone's belief here, something you seem to feel the need to do. rather, if the answer is what i expect i'm probably inclinded to agree.
God is a God of Righteousness, Which means that God Follows the Laws of Righteousness. God Gives us the Same laws that he Follows.
no rhetoric. simple logic here.
first premise: god tells man not to kill.
second premise: god controls when we die, ie: god kills.
therefore: god's instruction does not apply to god.
god's law is a contract between man and god, a covenant. he is bound contractually (although not out of neccessity) to the terms of his side of the agreement, but NOT OURS. he protects his children and put them in the land he promised, therefore his children should follow his instructions. those instructions, per the terms of the covenant, don't even apply to non-jews, let alone gods.
God could not exist except he were to Follow laws. for if he were to follow no laws, he would be non existant
now that's just silly. do you contend then that god is not omnipotent?
God cannot be above his own laws, for his laws are what control and govern the universe
is god of this universe, or did he create it? that's like saying bill gates is bound by his code. bill gates exists outside windows, you know. god exists outside our universe. if god were bound by natural laws, then we woundn't have these things called MIRACLES, such as recorded in the bible (and i'm the book of mormon i'm sure).
Because any law that he gives us is a law that he already follows, it is his will that we become as Righteous as he is. To Do as He Would.
i suggest you re-read the first few books of the bible, and pretend god is a human being. make note of everytime he does something you'd consider sinful. also note that in exodus, he does some of these things on a massive scale. simply put, if you believe the bible, it disproves your point. god quite often "breaks" his own laws. god kills, and lies, and is jealous. that's three commandments right there. god must not be bound by those laws.
Quit trying to interpret the Bible so as to sastify your carnal desires, there will be no reward for you in the end except that which you feed to yourselves, don't you understand that.
i'm not interpreting, i'm analyzing. nothing i've said here is out of line with strict logic. i've read the text, and YOUR interpretation doesn't make sense. i've pointed out historical, logical, and textual refutations of it, and then you accuse me of what exactly?
Anytime God does something, he is just. If God kill's a man, it is because the man deserve's it, or it is part of certain law's of god.
i agree.
or, rather, i will when you tell me what job did to deserve his punishment. the book ended rather abruptly, and i never found out.
When God gives you a commandment to not kill innocent people (murder), he is saying, "Do not shed innocent blood, lest the Lord thy God holds thee accountable for the life of an innocent man, now, and at judgement". God has never said, "Abondon thyselves, that the murderer might slaughter thee." (basically telling you that if there is a murder amongst you, kill him, he is an enemy to life.)
no, but god did commande abraham to sacrifice his innocent son, isaac. what did isaac do to deserve death?
and yes, i know he was spared, and i do get the point of the story.
your own foolishness of trying to SEE God According to YOUR Terms is Faulty. You will find yourself in the furnace that you don't even care about. quit letting satan lead your lives around while you don't even know what life is.
i study the bible. i enjoy it. i think it's a really interesting book, especially the books of the old testament. it's not my fault that much of christianity and its various sects has very little to do with it.
i am not trying to shape god to my view at all. in fact, the position i am supporting, as i have said before, is NOT how i would choose to view god, had i the choice. many times, i find the bible strongly conflicting with my opinions and beliefs.
but i have argued nothing here unbiblical. if you think that's of satan, that's your problem not mine. your passing judgement and offering condemnation for supporting the bible makes you look both ignorant, and unchristian.
If God makes a commandment, you obey it.
tell me, are you kosher?
Do not interpret God the way god has interpreted himself to you.
que? bible, folks. it's not that hard of a read, really.
Do not try to satisfy Vain and Senseless desires.
see above.
Read the Bible, and do what it says, instead of trying to interpret it so that it will satisfy your own carnal and selfish lives.
i read once that a key precept to mormonism was the constant path of faith. always questioning, the idea being that with knowledge humanity eventually tends towards deity.
i don't always agree with your faith, but i like that idea. i've been on that path all my life. i question, and i think. i read the bible, and i analyze it, put it context, see what it's saying. sometimes i'm right, sometimes i'm wrong. and so i question always.
saying that god breaks his own laws is not a radical new idea, or a selfish one. god has to in order to insure the functioning of the universe. imagine a world with no death for a second, realistically. what would happen if god DIDN'T kill?
i'm not saying that god's actions are wrong. i think they are right. he's god, i trust he knows what he's doing. i'm just saying that god is not bound by the law he gave us, and the bible supports that position.
God exists, despite your existance.
you will never get rid of God.
He can only get rid of you.
in case you haven't figured it out, i'm a believer. a strong one, at that. i have no beef with god. i just think some ideas about him are wrong.
God and man were created to live together with the same inheritance that the Lord has, Eternal Life.
grammatically, that sentance indicates that god was created. was that intentional? (honest question, no insult intended. honest)
The only people that do not amount to God are Lucifer(Satan) and his Angels, and anyone like them.
lucifer &ne satan. sorry.
lucifer is the latin name for the planet venus half the year, or the morning star. this was how the hebrew title for the king of babylon was translated. lucifer, speaking in a strictly biblical sense, was only a man. of course, parts that i HAVE read from mormon scripture indicate otherwise, but this all after inter-testamental and apocryphal books that describe similar things, not to mention paradise lost. so i'll let this one go for now. make another thread if you really wanna fight about it.
satan is, btw, a member of ben-elohym, and serves the will of god by testing men. but if you don't understand the concepts i've been talking about above, about god's knowledge of good AND evil, you'll never get this one.
The Book of Mormon is also the Second Volumn of Scripture
strictly speaking, it's part three. err, actually, depending on how you count, it could be a lot lower on the list. the ot alone is three parts, as is the nt. and the "book of mormon" is also multiple sets of books, is it not?
you are wicked.
judge not, lest you be judged.
And as long as you keep denying the Lord's Desires, you are giving Satan what HE Desires.
how erroneously dualistic.
Gods are Gods, Angels are Angels, but all are still the same, they have all Inherited ETERNAL LIFE! Where will you BE Going in Life?
you STILL didn't answer my simple question. what are the members of the group called the sons of god, and is christ one of them, according to your belief?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Justice, posted 12-13-2004 1:17 PM Justice has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Justice, posted 12-18-2004 5:44 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 158 of 264 (167982)
12-14-2004 5:17 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Justice
12-13-2004 4:29 PM


Re: Pick up at the other BoM thread ?
It's funny how you try to discredit the Book of Mormon by naming it BOM. you might as well just call the Bible B.
people here call the old testament "ot" and the new testament "nt."
i call my old testament "tanakh" which is short for "torah, nevi'im, kethuvim"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Justice, posted 12-13-2004 4:29 PM Justice has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Nighttrain, posted 12-14-2004 5:38 AM arachnophilia has replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 159 of 264 (167987)
12-14-2004 5:38 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by arachnophilia
12-14-2004 5:17 AM


Re: Pick up at the other BoM thread ?
I`m really interested in this concept that each Mormon has a planet out there with their name on it. Or is that Scientology? In case of the first, do you have to wear your sacred temple underwear when you go to your own planet?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by arachnophilia, posted 12-14-2004 5:17 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by arachnophilia, posted 12-14-2004 5:41 AM Nighttrain has not replied
 Message 165 by Legend, posted 12-14-2004 10:15 AM Nighttrain has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 160 of 264 (167990)
12-14-2004 5:41 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Nighttrain
12-14-2004 5:38 AM


Re: Pick up at the other BoM thread ?
i think that may be scientology, night.
and i'm not sure if they wear sacred temple underwear.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Nighttrain, posted 12-14-2004 5:38 AM Nighttrain has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 161 of 264 (168021)
12-14-2004 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by arachnophilia
12-10-2004 2:11 AM


quote:
with the bom, we're dealing with a single translation, by a single person.
although part of the bible seem fishy indeed, there's something about the bom that seems ever more spurious, like it was made up recently.
Joseph Smith was actually given fake documents to "translate" with his seeing stones, and amazingly he was able to translate them.
I smells a rat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by arachnophilia, posted 12-10-2004 2:11 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Legend, posted 12-14-2004 10:07 AM nator has not replied
 Message 173 by arachnophilia, posted 12-15-2004 1:17 AM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 162 of 264 (168025)
12-14-2004 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Justice
12-13-2004 4:29 PM


Re: Pick up at the other BoM thread ?
Justice, why does your avatar picture depict Jesus as someone of European descent?
Also, why do your missionaries prey on young, vulnerable people on college campuses?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Justice, posted 12-13-2004 4:29 PM Justice has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Legend, posted 12-14-2004 10:01 AM nator has not replied
 Message 169 by Justice, posted 12-14-2004 6:45 PM nator has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 163 of 264 (168042)
12-14-2004 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by nator
12-14-2004 9:17 AM


Re: Pick up at the other BoM thread ?
quote:
Justice, why does your avatar picture depict Jesus as someone of European descent?
I think his avatar is depicting Joseph Smith.
quote:
Also, why do your missionaries prey on young, vulnerable people on college campuses?
Hey, the church has to grow!

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by nator, posted 12-14-2004 9:17 AM nator has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 164 of 264 (168046)
12-14-2004 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by nator
12-14-2004 8:57 AM


Joseph's papyri
are you referring to the Egyptian papyri fiasco ? what happened was that some Egyptian papyri were discovered and Joseph Smith offered to translate them. He then proclaimed that they were the writings of Abraham and Joseph (or some other biblical characters, I can't remember) and all the Mormons were very excited about it. I think some of the translation even got to be included in LDS scriptures (Pearl of Great Price). As, at the time, hieroglyphics were not readable, Smith's translation could not be validated either way.
Then, the papyri were lost, presumed destroyed. About a hundred years later, the papyri re-surfaced and -guess what- by that time hieroglyphic translation had been cracked, so the papyri were actually translated. Surprise, surprise they were not the story of Abraham or Joseph, but some Egyptian priest going about his ordinary life.
A lot of back-pedalling from LDS has ensued ever since.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by nator, posted 12-14-2004 8:57 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by arachnophilia, posted 12-15-2004 1:19 AM Legend has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 165 of 264 (168049)
12-14-2004 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Nighttrain
12-14-2004 5:38 AM


Re: Pick up at the other BoM thread ?
quote:
I`m really interested in this concept that each Mormon has a planet out there with their name on it. Or is that Scientology?
my understanding is that LDS memners can become gods and rule over their own universe. So, it's more of a cosmos with their name on it. The implication being, that the bible God was, once, a man in another universe.
quote:
In case of the first, do you have to wear your sacred temple underwear when you go to your own planet?
only if you haven't done the ritual handshaking and sacred gestures. Joseph Smith copied a lot of the Masonic rituals in his temple ceremonies.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Nighttrain, posted 12-14-2004 5:38 AM Nighttrain has not replied

  
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