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Author Topic:   Is venus spinning backwards?
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 16 of 25 (1917)
01-11-2002 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by redstang281
01-11-2002 1:46 PM



joz writes:
I'm allowed to joke once in a while, right?

You sure are! If this isn't fun there's no point in being here. Maybe I should add having fun to the guidelines.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by redstang281, posted 01-11-2002 1:46 PM redstang281 has not replied

TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 25 (1951)
01-11-2002 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by redstang281
01-10-2002 1:25 PM


"It became difficult to answer the volume of posts I was receiving. I'll try to get to that post. "
--I know exactly what you mean! Posts totally pile up on me, I don't know what it is, mabye its cause I cause alot of riots in these forums, hehe, mabye its just cause I like a good discussion, or mabye Im just a good debater
Hehe whatever it is I know it.
--------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by redstang281, posted 01-10-2002 1:25 PM redstang281 has replied

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redstang281
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 25 (1969)
01-12-2002 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by TrueCreation
01-11-2002 11:25 PM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"It became difficult to answer the volume of posts I was receiving. I'll try to get to that post. "
--I know exactly what you mean! Posts totally pile up on me, I don't know what it is, mabye its cause I cause alot of riots in these forums, hehe, mabye its just cause I like a good discussion, or mabye Im just a good debater
Hehe whatever it is I know it.

It's definatly the ratio thing. Probably also helps with your debate skills, although I don't think I can lay claim to that one. BTW, are you a YEC creationist?
Back to the topic. Can any evolutionist bring the theory of the universes origins to the table for me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by TrueCreation, posted 01-11-2002 11:25 PM TrueCreation has not replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3823 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 19 of 25 (1971)
01-12-2002 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by joz
01-11-2002 1:01 PM


I'm glad to see that there is a stable Creationist presence here.
Current theory of the origin of the universe is that there was a large expansion ~15 bya (with a large variation in different age estimates) and that material from that expansion coalesced into stellar systems, the Earth is probably in the third or fourth generation of stellar systems.
In prior (failed) attempts to post in this thread I debunked the Creationist use of Venus' retrograde orbit, but I'll just give redstang a change to state his position first.
[This message has been edited by gene90, 01-12-2002]

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 20 of 25 (2020)
01-13-2002 4:50 PM


Of no apparent relevance to evolution or creation, but anyway:
Musings on the relations between a planets revolving speed (around the sun), it's rotationial speed (around it's own axis) and the length of a day.
Fundimental definitions:
1 year = time it takes planet to complete 1 revolution (360 degrees) around the sun.
The panets year is essentially constant as time passes.
1 day = time it takes a planet to rotate, such that a given point on the planet cycles from facing directly toward the sun, to once again facing directly towards the sun (not necesarily 360 degrees of rotation).
Hypothetical model: The earth, and assuming a slowing rotationial rate (measured in degrees per time, with "days" not being a valid unit of time, since the length of a day is changing) for the earth (which is an accepted concept by mainstream science).
Currently, the earth has a year of essentially 365.25 days, or conversely, an earth day is 1/365.25 years.
In other words, the earth's rotation rate is 365.25 times it's revolvution rate. In one day the earth rotates:
earth day = 360 degrees +

The Barbarian
Member (Idle past 6239 days)
Posts: 31
From: Dallas, TX US
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 21 of 25 (2022)
01-13-2002 6:23 PM


A few corrections:
1. The Solar year is closer to 365.24 days. This is why the Julian calendar got out of whack, and why they had to prepare the Gregorian calendar. One extra day added every 4 years to February (same as Julian)
But... You don't do it if the year is divisible by 100, unless it's also divisible by 400.
That comes out to an error of somewhat less than one day in 3300 years. Not bad, but there are better ones. The ancient Mayan, for example.
2. The Earth's rotation is being slowed by tidal forces from the moon. It's a very tiny amount, but noticeable over millions of years. Eventually, the Earth's rotation will synchronize with the Moon's revolution (and the Moon's rotation, which is already almost synchronized with its revolution) The Earth will then retain that rotational speed. Since the Earth is slowing by about 3.2 milliseconds per century, it suggests that the synchronization will take place about 756,000,000 years from now, at which time the environment will be very different. Minnesota,after 29.5 days of winter solstice night, is a chilling thought.

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 22 of 25 (2056)
01-14-2002 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by The Barbarian
01-13-2002 6:23 PM


I'm going from memory, but these numbers seem somewhat amiss. Isn't the length of the year 365.2499? Aren't there additional corrections beyond those mentioned, perhaps if the year is divisible for 4000 (again, I'm just going from memory)? And won't it take longer than 3/4 of a billion years for the earth's rotation to equal its lunar month (I didn't do the math, but it seems inconsistent with other data)?
--Percy

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redstang281
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 25 (2080)
01-14-2002 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by gene90
01-12-2002 1:27 PM


[QUOTE][b]
Current theory of the origin of the universe is that there was a large expansion ~15 bya (with a large variation in different age estimates) and that material from that expansion coalesced into stellar systems, the Earth is probably in the third or fourth generation of stellar systems. [/QUOTE]
[/b]
Why do you say that it is probably in the third or fourth generation?
[b] [QUOTE] In prior (failed) attempts to post in this thread I debunked the Creationist use of Venus' retrograde orbit, but I'll just give redstang a change to state his position first.
[/b][/QUOTE]
I'm not really expecting to gain any ground on this one. Whenever scientist encounter and obsticle all it requires is another imaginative theory.
[This message has been edited by redstang281, 01-14-2002]

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joz
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 25 (2082)
01-14-2002 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by redstang281
01-14-2002 12:58 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by redstang281:
Why do you say that it is probably in the third or fourth generation?[/b][/QUOTE]
in the sun hydrogen atoms form helium through fusion, helium can in turn fuse forming heavier elements....
Given the prevalence of heavier atoms such as iron in the solar system we would say that it formed from the remnants of another star that went nova.....
The amount of heavier atoms present gives a result of 3-4 "stellar generations"
quote:
I'm not really expecting to gain any ground on this one. Whenever scientist encounter and obsticle all it requires is another imaginative theory.
If the clouds parted tomorrow and a golden beam of light shone down and a big booming voice said "Oi you, I am real I did it all!" I would have a bit of a problem thinking up a theory (a naturalistic one anyway)....

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 Message 23 by redstang281, posted 01-14-2002 12:58 PM redstang281 has not replied

thgar
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 25 (168742)
12-15-2004 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Percy
01-14-2002 10:18 AM


Length of Year in Days
Percy: The year is currently equal to about 365 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes, and 46.08 seconds (365.2422 days). Thus the Gregorian leap years of one day every 4 years, except years divisible by 100, except every 400th year contains one too many days every 3,333 years. But that is nothing: the old soviet calendar (introduced in October OF 1923) reads a normal 365 day year except in those years equivalent to either 2 or 6 mod(9) which are 366 day leap years. This calendar counts one day too many every 45,000 years.
FYI: for the Muslim calendar (a lunar based calendar) and the Jewish calendar (a solar/lunar combination calendar) the period between two new moons is currently about 29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes, and 2.80 seconds (29.530588 days).
This message has been edited by thgar, 12-15-2004 10:38 PM
{Closed old "Great Debate" topic on 7/8/05. - Adminnemooseus}
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 07-08-2005 12:15 AM

This message is a reply to:
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