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Author | Topic: Why I am creationist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Maestro232 Inactive Member |
OK, I'll begin by commenting generally on the reasons positted in message 3 of said thread.
First let me say I believe it starts with a question of what we trust. I trust the Bible as trustworthy and many scientists here trust published scientific papers about fossil records as trust worthy. Either or both could theoretically be riddled with lies or false assumptions that led to an avalanche of more false assumptions.
quote: I am not convinced that the fossil record is accurately interpreted as some scientists interpret it when they consider lower layers as older higher layers as newer and everything in between creating a nice continuum of age. I find the reports of what is found where to be riddled with dishonesty in some cases, and it leads me to believe that anybody positing the theory could be either dishonest or genuinely unaware of the truth. Why? Because I think the Bible is trustworthy. More so than secular scientists.
quote: This is clearly subjective analysis of the data, and because I think the Bible is more trustworthy than secular scientists, I believe that truth is either misrepresented, or there is a way to explain what is in a way that does not conflict with the Bible.
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5899 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
But, just the same, if you are really, truly interested in why I think the whole of scientific data in general suggests a creator, I am willing to post an abbreviated statement here. I for one am really truly interested in why you think this. However, I am unwilling to accept "general" or "abbreviated" statements in defense of your position. This is precisely the game creationists are ALWAYS playing. No, if you want to be convincing, let's do some specific examples - not vague generalities. I'm not looking for some bizarre metaphysical philosophical discussion. I personally find those as unutterably boring as watching paint crack and as intellectually fulfilling as clipping my dog's toenails. You want to argue science, then let's get to it. I would like to draw your attention to this post wherein I lay out some of the basic lines of evidence for evolution drawn from biogeography. Please take either the specific examples from that post, or the examples mentioned in post 123 of that thread, and discuss - in detail and with specifics - why recourse to a supernatural provides a better explanation than evolution. I won't even require you to have "scientific papers" to support your claims - I know there aren't any. However, you must address the specific examples, and in sufficient depth so that your argument is at least logically tenable.
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Maestro232 Inactive Member |
It's pretty simplistic unfortunately.
I think that the whole of scientific observation has shown things decay and become more chaotic. The two theories are... 1. A creator made us and the world complete and perfect and we have witnessed decay over time 2. We and other things have become more orderly and sofisticated over time. Option one just makes more sense to me. Sorry.
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Maestro232 Inactive Member |
In fact, I'll be perfectly honest, I think the fact that people think such a complicated and ordered universe as ours could have come from a bang and some hydrogen (or whatever the theory is) is the most ludicrous illogical conclusion to make from scientific observation that I could possibly imagine!!
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
whatever the theory is Does this statement tell you nothing about your position? If you can't actually say what the theory is, then how do you know it's ludicrous and illogical?
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Maestro232 Inactive Member |
quote: Sorry, I can't keep up with popular science's latest changes on what they think happened. My fault.
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Parasomnium Member Posts: 2224 Joined: |
Maestro232 writes: I think the fact that people think such a complicated and ordered universe as ours could have come from a bang and some hydrogen (or whatever the theory is) is the most ludicrous illogical conclusion to make from scientific observation that I could possibly imagine!! If you haven't even bothered to look at it in some detail - evidenced by "a bang and some hydrogen (or whatever the theory is)" - you have no reason to find any conclusion from it illogical. We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
Sorry, I can't keep up with popular science's latest changes on what they think happened. I love seeing someone take pride in an uninformed opinion.
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CK Member (Idle past 4155 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
got ya - you've said in this and the other thread that you use logic (partly) as a guide.
I take on board what you are saying - I can see how logic would led you to believe that the universe must have created itself.
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
I think that the whole of scientific observation has shown things decay and become more chaotic. Well, since you use the phrase "scientific observation" it seems you are going to have some support for that. It happens that you are wrong about this.
I think the fact that people think such a complicated and ordered universe as ours could have come from a bang and some hydrogen (or whatever the theory is) is the most ludicrous illogical conclusion to make from scientific observation that I could possibly imagine!! You personal incredulity is hardly likely to convince anyone else is it? You have two choices: 1) Live and let live. You may express you opinions on the matter whereever you like. You may not use this fallacy (personal incredulity) to support interfering in teaching. 2) You may chose to support this view with reasons and evidence.(however, you don't seem to be strong on that approach do you? )
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Maestro232 Inactive Member |
I have plenty of reasons. Just no evidence beyond the beauty of the world.
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Maestro232 Inactive Member |
I'm not sure I understand Charles.
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
I'm sure that people would be interested in how you reason from beauty to where ever you want to go.
It sounds like you're comfortable with your beliefs. That's fine with most of us then. I don't know why you'd bother posting here though. We already know there are lots of people who believe all sorts of things with no evidence or logical reasons.
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CK Member (Idle past 4155 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
Well if logic leads you to belive that the universe was created - it must have created itself, right? The only other logical position is that it had a creator who had a creator who had a creator....
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Maestro232 Inactive Member |
Nosy,
Someone has got to step into this place every now and again and try to wake you guys up. God says you are without excuse. He uses sinful losers like me to sufficiently remind you that He is out their calling for you to recognize His omnipotence.
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