Where is George Jetson?

Given enough time, all species evolve to the maximum that they are able. If this universe has been around for such a LOOONG time, and if we can postulate life on other planets, why are we not seeing advanced forms zipping around like the Jetsons? I mean, some planet out there somewhere should have mastered intersteller travel by now! Or is it that the incredible distances are too vast?

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Hi Phatboy, OR: All species evolve until they are unable to reproduce. This does not necessarily mean they are capable of space flight. Given astronomers’ estimates for the size of the universe and the unknown conditions for life to begin, why assume this should have happened? Maybe they have, and interstellar travel is too far; or perhaps intergalactic travel would be needed. Speculation is fine, but the only real answer at present is: we don’t know.You seem to be suggesting that we are special in the universe, and that anybody out there would seek us out asap. Maybe we are just an uncharted speck in the universe that no-one has been able or inclined to inspect so far. We simply don’t have enough information to know, so I won’t be loosing any sleep over it!Cheers.

Interstellar travel is one thing, but intergalactic travel is a couple of orders of magnitude further. And with a hundred billion stars to explore in one's own galaxy, why would intelligent aliens leave theirs or come to ours, out of the hundred billion available galaxies?And more to the point, if they got within 40 light years of Earth today, what signals would they pick up from us? Beverly Hillbillies and Gilligan's Island, that's what! "Judy's Turn to Cry" on the radio! They'd turn around immediately.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that the technical issues involved in intergalactic travel might be solved.If that is the case, then we could probably draw some parallels with the Age of Exploration.How familar are you with that?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You are looking at evolution as though it has a goal. It isn't a force that starts out with amino acid chains and finishes with humans with all sorts of technology. Humans are just one of many ways things could have turned out. There is no requirement that the Earth has a highly intelligent species either - humans just happen to be able to use their intelligence to quickly adapt to many different conditions. Roaches aren't intelligent, and they are found everywhere. Same with bacteria.I would think that on other planets, life would be possible. I don't know how common it is, but I think that conditions similar to those that started life on Earth could be present on other worlds. Assuming that this happens, it may be rare that a highly intelligent and/or spacefareing civilization occurs. On top of that, the civilization may remain spacefareing for only a short period of time in the grand scheme of things, in much the same way humans went to the moon, and then left and haven't really strayed far from Earth since then, with the exception of robotic probes.The distances that one must traverse to get to a close star are incredibly huge. Alpha Centauri, the closest star to our own, is about 4.2 light years away - equivalent to about 2.5*10^13 miles. This is too far for humans to travel with our current technology, but we may eventually find a way to get there as technology progresses.If a hypothetical civilization sprung up on a planet around Alpha Centauri, and developed the capability to travel here, they might arrive too early or too late. There is a narrow window of time in which they would have to find us. If they looked at our solar system and checked for radio signals in the 1700s, they might assume that there was no intelligent life here. If they checked too late, we might have all killed each other and destroyed our planet, so it would be too late for them to come seeking any life more intelligent than whatever survived. That's just in the realm of a couple hundred years. In the bigger picture, there is little chance that we could meet an intelligent species from any particular star system. I'm not saying that they don't exist, they are just hard to find, and even more so if they don't have some form of technology transmitting a signal we can intercept.

the paraphrase hobbes (the cartoon, not the philosopher, although the line is often blurred):i think the proof that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is that they don't come here.

In 2061 Zephram Cochraine develops warp drive and we are finally of interest to the interstellar community. And we call ourselves scientists.

yes, but only if jeordie comes back in time to motivate and help him, bringing him out of his alcoholic lifestyle and defeatism.(damn revisionist history)

So you have great faith in intelligence elsewhere, yet so little faith in the only intelligence that you actually know?

In addition to what others have said, keep in mind that the possible existence of life beyond the earth does not mean that such life is any more advanced than us, despite its general portrayal as such in books and movies.

Gary writes:

quote:

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If a hypothetical civilization sprung up on a planet around Alpha Centauri, and developed the capability to travel here, they might arrive too early or too late. There is a narrow window of time in which they would have to find us.

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On top of the question of timing us looking when we're sending out a signal, there's the question of actually being able to detect a signal. Our electromagnetic usage is becoming more and more encrypted. It could easily be the case that multiple-spectrum technologies take over. Even if they looked, they might not detect anything since the transmissions are specifically designed to look like background noise.And then there's the question of looking in the right way. One of the caveats that the SETI project points out is that they're only looking at certain wavelengths. Think of a cordless phone. Some use the 900 MHz spectrum, some use 2.4 GHz, and some use 5.8 GHz. If you're only looking at one set of spectra and they're broadcasting on another, you'll never see it.

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Tonight at a dinner party a group of us were discussing this topic. A good friend pointed out another excellent point relating to the concept. We have been broadcasting 'accidental' noise for only a short time and are slowing that down now to a stop. As communication advances we are no longer broadcasting signals like we used to. As my friend noted, this means that planet Earth broadcast a burst of information from the 1930's that is petering out now due to satellite communication. An expanding shell of transmisions 70 years thick is all any alien race might detact.To a potentially intelligent race on a planet around Alpha Centauri looking for signals they would have to have been listening at that time and missed us. Their 'CETI' program could have endend 100 years ago or be 100 years in their future and they (and us) would be clueless of their existence. (I recognize, of course, that Alpha Centari is the closest system to Earth of the Romulan Empire)

I am looking at the sheer probability of contact based upon the sheer number of chance civilizations that in theory exist. Even allowing for technological differences, surely 1 out of a possible 30,000 could find us. this assumes the great technological leap necessary to do so. If this math can't be figured as a probable, how on earth will WE ever get our space exploring act together? Maybe in 1000 years, we can finally make it out of the galaxy with an unmanned probe.

Nope. The speed of light isn't just a good idea: it's the law. Our galaxy is tens of thousands of light years across - and you can't leave any faster that the speed of light. And if you could, how long would it take to beam the news home?