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Author Topic:   Mormon Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 135 of 264 (166906)
12-10-2004 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Justice
12-08-2004 7:53 PM


Re: Question
Justice,
how many Gods are there, according to LDS teachings?

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Justice, posted 12-08-2004 7:53 PM Justice has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Justice, posted 12-10-2004 1:44 PM Legend has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 140 of 264 (167147)
12-11-2004 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by Justice
12-10-2004 1:44 PM


Re: Question
Justice writes:
What you deem as teachings, and what is actually taught, are two different things. you can't argue that with me, I'm LDS.
What I claim as LDS teachings is what is contained in LDS scripture:
KJV Bible
The BOM
Doctrine and Covenants
Pearl of Great Price
and also documented teachings of LDS apostles, like the Journal of Discourses and Articles of Faith
Are you suggesting that things are taught that contradict the above scriptures ?!
Justice writes:
it is known that there is ONE God, our Heavenly Father.
ok...
Justice writes:
Christ is also as God is. he is also therefore referred to - as God - , because he is also God, just not >GOD< God.
hang on.. you just said there is only ONE God. Now you're saying there are two? make up your mind!
Do you also believe there is a Heavenly Mother ?
Justice writes:
then we, through repentance, and the Atonement of Christ, enter into our Redemtion, and through the Eternities, become as God >IS<.
>AS< Gods.
when you say 'as' Gods what do you mean? do you mean in stature, power, glory, what ?
Justice writes:
The Lord has Said it.
Where? show me!
Justice writes:
...you can't argue that with me, I'm LDS.
well, then you'll surely know that in your church the truth is only gradually revealed. So, unless you are the living prophet, I can argue with you all I want.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Justice, posted 12-10-2004 1:44 PM Justice has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Justice, posted 12-13-2004 1:41 PM Legend has replied
 Message 148 by Justice, posted 12-13-2004 1:45 PM Legend has replied
 Message 149 by Justice, posted 12-13-2004 1:50 PM Legend has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 145 of 264 (167338)
12-12-2004 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by AdminPhat
12-12-2004 5:59 AM


Pick up at the other BoM thread ?
may I suggest we pick up where we left off at this other thread: Can we trust the Book of Mormon? ?

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by AdminPhat, posted 12-12-2004 5:59 AM AdminPhat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Justice, posted 12-13-2004 4:29 PM Legend has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 153 of 264 (167779)
12-13-2004 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Justice
12-13-2004 4:29 PM


Re: Pick up at the other BoM thread ?
I didn't try to discredit the Book of Mormon by naming it BoM, I just write it like that because it saves time and typing. If that offends you, I'll call it by its full name from now on.
** EDIT ** removed last sentence as I just saw a reply to me in Message 147
This message has been edited by Legend, 12-13-2004 05:03 PM

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Justice, posted 12-13-2004 4:29 PM Justice has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Justice, posted 12-14-2004 6:09 PM Legend has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 154 of 264 (167787)
12-13-2004 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by Justice
12-13-2004 1:41 PM


Re: Question
Then why does the bible say there is only one God ?!
"Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared [it]? ye [are] even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any]." (Isaiah 44:8 )
** EDIT - first sentence for clarity
This message has been edited by Legend, 12-13-2004 05:28 PM

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Justice, posted 12-13-2004 1:41 PM Justice has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Justice, posted 12-14-2004 6:23 PM Legend has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 155 of 264 (167796)
12-13-2004 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Justice
12-13-2004 1:45 PM


Re: Question
but the Bible says there haven't been any prophets since John:
"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." ( Luke 16:16 )
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" (Hebrews 1:1-2)
So the Bible says there is no living prophet!
don't you believe the word of God?

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Justice, posted 12-13-2004 1:45 PM Justice has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Justice, posted 12-14-2004 6:40 PM Legend has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 163 of 264 (168042)
12-14-2004 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by nator
12-14-2004 9:17 AM


Re: Pick up at the other BoM thread ?
quote:
Justice, why does your avatar picture depict Jesus as someone of European descent?
I think his avatar is depicting Joseph Smith.
quote:
Also, why do your missionaries prey on young, vulnerable people on college campuses?
Hey, the church has to grow!

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by nator, posted 12-14-2004 9:17 AM nator has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 164 of 264 (168046)
12-14-2004 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by nator
12-14-2004 8:57 AM


Joseph's papyri
are you referring to the Egyptian papyri fiasco ? what happened was that some Egyptian papyri were discovered and Joseph Smith offered to translate them. He then proclaimed that they were the writings of Abraham and Joseph (or some other biblical characters, I can't remember) and all the Mormons were very excited about it. I think some of the translation even got to be included in LDS scriptures (Pearl of Great Price). As, at the time, hieroglyphics were not readable, Smith's translation could not be validated either way.
Then, the papyri were lost, presumed destroyed. About a hundred years later, the papyri re-surfaced and -guess what- by that time hieroglyphic translation had been cracked, so the papyri were actually translated. Surprise, surprise they were not the story of Abraham or Joseph, but some Egyptian priest going about his ordinary life.
A lot of back-pedalling from LDS has ensued ever since.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by nator, posted 12-14-2004 8:57 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by arachnophilia, posted 12-15-2004 1:19 AM Legend has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 165 of 264 (168049)
12-14-2004 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Nighttrain
12-14-2004 5:38 AM


Re: Pick up at the other BoM thread ?
quote:
I`m really interested in this concept that each Mormon has a planet out there with their name on it. Or is that Scientology?
my understanding is that LDS memners can become gods and rule over their own universe. So, it's more of a cosmos with their name on it. The implication being, that the bible God was, once, a man in another universe.
quote:
In case of the first, do you have to wear your sacred temple underwear when you go to your own planet?
only if you haven't done the ritual handshaking and sacred gestures. Joseph Smith copied a lot of the Masonic rituals in his temple ceremonies.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Nighttrain, posted 12-14-2004 5:38 AM Nighttrain has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 170 of 264 (168251)
12-14-2004 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Justice
12-14-2004 6:09 PM


Re: Pick up at the other BoM thread ?
yeeahhh...just a tad judgemental, IMHO. There's no need for all this 'you are wicked' stuff, methinks

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Justice, posted 12-14-2004 6:09 PM Justice has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 171 of 264 (168265)
12-14-2004 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Justice
12-14-2004 6:23 PM


How many Gods are there ?
Justice,
the Bible says there is only one God. I'm actually addressing this in more detail, in another thread, here :Msg 224 - How many Gods are there? .
What makes you think that there are many gods and only one can preside over them?

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Justice, posted 12-14-2004 6:23 PM Justice has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Justice, posted 12-21-2004 4:40 PM Legend has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 172 of 264 (168266)
12-14-2004 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Justice
12-14-2004 6:40 PM


Re: Question
Justice writes:
yes, but see the thing is is that you understand that God uses Living Prophets
But the Bible says that there are no more prophets since John. There is no need for them because God has spoken through Jesus.
"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." ( Luke 16:16 )
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who do you expect me to believe - you or the Bible ?

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Justice, posted 12-14-2004 6:40 PM Justice has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Justice, posted 12-21-2004 3:54 PM Legend has replied
 Message 207 by Justice, posted 12-21-2004 4:46 PM Legend has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 176 of 264 (168409)
12-15-2004 5:00 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by arachnophilia
12-15-2004 1:19 AM


Re: Joseph's papyri
yes, I think they were standard funeral rites, nothing to do with Abraham and Joseph whatsoever. LDS members I've talked to, who knew of this affair, accept that the papyri for what they were, but don't acknowledge that J.Smith translated them to produce the book of Abraham.
Go figure,

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by arachnophilia, posted 12-15-2004 1:19 AM arachnophilia has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 212 of 264 (170560)
12-21-2004 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Justice
12-21-2004 3:54 PM


who has the truth ?
Justice writes:
I expect you to believe Truth, whether you've interpreted it from The Bible, Me, or God.
are you suggesting that you have the truth where the Bible doesn't?
Tell me, do you believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God ?

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Justice, posted 12-21-2004 3:54 PM Justice has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 213 of 264 (170564)
12-21-2004 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Justice
12-21-2004 4:40 PM


Re: How many Gods are there ?
Justice writes:
It's a hard concept to understand, but it does make sense afterwards
"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me..."
"That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else."
(Isaiah 45:5,6)
what's so hard to understand about that ?
How many Gods are there ?
Justice writes:
...but don't forget to remind me incase I forget
don't you worry, I will.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Justice, posted 12-21-2004 4:40 PM Justice has not replied

  
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