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Author Topic:   What is the evolutionary advantage to religion?
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1 of 167 (171352)
12-24-2004 6:07 PM


So, as the year draws to a close (or has already finished for those who use a solstice new year marker), one has to wonder ...
What is the evolutionary advantage to religion?
{I have changed the previously very vague topic title ("The Advantage ... what is it?") to the above phrase. - Adminnemooseus}
why it has evolved can be discussed elsewhere (there are studies that point to it being a co-evolved trait with sexually selected ability for song and dance) ...
what I want to know is what is the advantage given by religion(s) that allows it to pesist.
enjoy.
(ps - admin: I see this as posted on {biological evolution} as it really pertains to evolution of a trait rather than what the trait is.)
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 12-28-2004 12:28 AM
{edited to turn on e-mail notices}
This message has been edited by RAZD, 01-03-2005 19:32 AM

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Ben!, posted 12-28-2004 8:23 PM RAZD has replied
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 167 (171353)
12-24-2004 6:35 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3 of 167 (171354)
12-24-2004 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminNosy
12-24-2004 6:35 PM


and we're off
thank you kind sir.

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contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 167 (171877)
12-28-2004 12:18 PM


quote:
what I want to know is what is the advantage given by religion(s) that allows it to pesist.
For the purveyor of snake oil, the fruits of other peoples legitimate labours. Thats all. We often think that religion has to be advantageous to the whole society, but it does not.

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 167 (171907)
12-28-2004 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by contracycle
12-28-2004 12:18 PM


Religion gives hope of an after life. Nobody wants to cease to exist.
But the evolutionary advantage?
This would mean there would have to be a genetic tendency toward religious belief in certain people, and that this tends to be carried on through the generations.
Perhaps I don't understand the topic.

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Ben!
Member (Idle past 1398 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 6 of 167 (171991)
12-28-2004 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
12-24-2004 6:07 PM


First, I found a topic that seems to be along the same line:
Can Evolution explain this? (Re: The biological evolution of religious belief)
Second, I wrote a reply about Dr. Robert Sapolsky's talk where he discusses religion and the dopaminergic reward system:
http://EvC Forum: Stanford University Conference Videos: Brain, Mind and Emergence
I thought these two things would be interesting to you.

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 7 of 167 (171992)
12-28-2004 8:32 PM


Religion is a quick and easy way to get a moral system going in order to have a working society. Instead of coming up with philosophical concepts, all you have to do is threaten the people by saying, "Do this or enjoy eternal damnation."
Religion persists because, again, it is quick and easy. "Goddunit" is the only thing you need to learn and it is more preferable to many people over spending years learning philosophy or science. This can be demonstrated by this very forum. The fact that most YEC's that have visited this place are either crackpots or stupid people should tell you something. The ones that are a little better than what I just described tend to misrepresent scientific and philosophical concepts (perhaps they read something out of a flier and thought they've learned everything there is to know about those concepts?).
Natural Selection tends to give advantage to the systems with the least complicated design yet have the most efficient yields. Take the male breasts/nipples for example.
Religion is a quick and easy way to give one a sense of know-it-all. Why bother spending a life time studying complex scientific mechanisms when all you have to do is read the scripture and say "goddunit" to your 6 year old when he asks a question?
Added by edit.
Besides, it justifies a lot of hate that people have. Slavery was justified by religion. Genocide was justified by religion. Racism was justified by religion. Sexism was and still is justified by religion. Homophobia was and still is justified by religion. I wouldn't be surprised if a future nuclear holocaust will be justified by religion.
All in all, religion can so easily replace human reason and science for a simple reason: People have a reason for feeling bigger than other people and such a feeling is like the feeling you get from smoking pot or sniffing glue.
This message has been edited by Lam, 12-28-2004 20:38 AM

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 8 of 167 (172004)
12-28-2004 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by coffee_addict
12-28-2004 8:32 PM


cheetos anyone?
I dont know about the glue thing but pot makes ya paranoid and give ya the uncontrollable urge to eat a bag of cheetos. The point you make about telling the 6 year old "goddunit" is a good one. So many people I know tell me that I should not bother with all the inquiry about the nature of reality and the search for a reason de entre'
I am met with people quoting Deuteronomy The secret things are mine says God. But the very next line is: Except those things which I reveal to you, which shall be yours and your childrens. That sounds to me like God wanting human kind to search and desire to know how conciousness came from matter, how the universe operates and how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Happy New year Lam.

"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

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Gilgamesh
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 167 (172006)
12-28-2004 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
12-24-2004 6:07 PM


what I want to know is what is the advantage given by religion(s) that allows it to pesist.
Theists often have more offspring. I think it was Stephen Ben Yeshua who argued convingly with me on this site that his beliefs were evolutionarily superior to mine because he had many more offspring.
Christianity in particular emphasises very early marriage, traditional family structures and the indoctrination of children into the religion.
IMO religion also an advantage in battle. Those who are fearful of death, ironically, often do not fight as well as those who believe a God is assisting them and will provide them with paradise if they die for the cause.

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 167 (172008)
12-28-2004 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by coffee_addict
12-28-2004 8:32 PM


Lam writes:
Religion persists because, again, it is quick and easy. "Goddunit" is the only thing you need to learn and it is more preferable to many people over spending years learning philosophy or science. This can be demonstrated by this very forum. The fact that most YEC's that have visited this place are either crackpots or stupid people should tell you something. The ones that are a little better than what I just described tend to misrepresent scientific and philosophical concepts (perhaps they read something out of a flier and thought they've learned everything there is to know about those concepts?).
Yes, yes, but what has this to do with evolution?
That communities that produce these stupid religious people tend to survive while the smart ones don't?

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 11 of 167 (172016)
12-28-2004 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by robinrohan
12-28-2004 10:39 PM


Well, if this isn't an indication that the stupid people are trying to eliminate the rest of us and take over the world, I don't know what is.
quote:
Malcolm Wright, 41, said he suffered trauma in the accident in which Richard Jones, 18, of Dyserth, died.
It has emerged he received 500 in an out of court settlement but had previously had to pay a premium of 440 on a no win, no fee, basis.
Mr Jones' family say the legal action has put them "through hell".
quote:
The teenager had been walking home to the family farm from a works' Christmas party in 2000 when he was struck by the car driven by Mr Wright.
No action was taken against Mr Wright and an inquest jury later returned a verdict of accidental death after hearing the details of the collision.
Mr Jones' mother Megan said: "To be blunt, he has put us through hell for three years.
"I never wanted him to have a penny from the accident in which Richard was killed.
quote:
Richard had applied for a place at Cambridge University after gaining four A grade A levels and was working at a Prestatyn engineering firm as part of a year away from his studies.
He suffered serious head injuries in the accident on 23 December, 2000 and died in hospital on Christmas Eve.

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PerfectDeath
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 167 (172030)
12-29-2004 12:02 AM


facing death?
in my opinion as our species evolved out in the african savanas we began to evolve our sense of reason and understanding... this allowed us to be creative but it also gave us the grim understanding of death.
every animal fears death but homosaipians know that it is comming and because of that we creat ways of comforting ourselves... so religion is a way for us to avoid that double bladed evolution. thats generaly why you see athiests becoming religious when they get into their old age.
and because i belive that i don't mind it when religious people belive in religion because we are cognitive misers; therefor, if it stresses us to think of it we find a way to avoid it (another evolutionary benifit and flaw)
and if this didn't answer your question then i didn't read it right :'(

Replies to this message:
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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 167 (172050)
12-29-2004 4:58 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by robinrohan
12-28-2004 10:39 PM


Actually, yes. A community of religious people [not necessarily stupid] is more tight-knit against a community with no common belief. In the days of bands, tribes, and city-states, this could be a large advantage. Just label the next neighbouring tribe as 'Godless heathens' and see your fellow tribesmen raise hell on them...

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 14 of 167 (172119)
12-29-2004 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Andya Primanda
12-29-2004 4:58 AM


The Puritans also used the same slogan to unite, and in many cases, control their people.

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 167 (172125)
12-29-2004 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by coffee_addict
12-29-2004 3:36 PM


Hey Lam, I thought this thread was supposed to be about whether or not there was any evolutionary advantage to being religious, not how horrible being religious is.

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