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Author Topic:   is it possible that....
frank
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 55 (17083)
09-10-2002 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Peter
09-10-2002 7:42 AM


I think the Protestant Reformation started with Martin Luther. Henry split off a little later for the divorce (or lack of) reasoning.
Clear Skies !
Frank

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 Message 13 by Peter, posted 09-10-2002 7:42 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
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Mike Holland
Member (Idle past 483 days)
Posts: 179
From: Sydney, NSW,Auistralia
Joined: 08-30-2002


Message 17 of 55 (17153)
09-11-2002 5:39 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by frank
09-10-2002 11:01 AM


Amazing! We not only have evolution of religions, we even have punctuated equilibria!
Mike Holland

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 Message 16 by frank, posted 09-10-2002 11:01 AM frank has not replied

  
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 55 (17159)
09-11-2002 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Tranquility Base
08-21-2002 10:34 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Whatever the case the Bible and Judaism/Christianity is unique on this planet in myriad aspects.
Hardly. Christianity "borrowed" much of its doctrine, rites, and rituals from older belief systems. Very little of it is original. As for Judaism they got much of their beliefs from the Babylonians during their time as their slaves. Christianity isn't even really mono-theistic. It has a head god, his son, and demi-gods (Angels), a god of the underworld, etc.
Lastly, the bible uses the same sources as the Torah(etc), and the Qu'ran and puts its own "spin" on them.
[This message has been edited by nos482, 09-11-2002]

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RedVento
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 55 (17184)
09-11-2002 4:03 PM


and don't forget the holy spirit..
The trinity makes for a lovely monothiestic religion...

Replies to this message:
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nos482
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 55 (17186)
09-11-2002 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by RedVento
09-11-2002 4:03 PM


quote:
Originally posted by RedVento:
and don't forget the holy spirit..
The trinity makes for a lovely monothiestic religion...

It is also nonsensical as well.

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Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 21 of 55 (17227)
09-12-2002 4:04 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by nos482
09-11-2002 7:44 AM


Yep. It's called syncretization. The Catholic church is famous for it. Examples in the past include coopting pagan rituals (samhain, for one obvious - Happy Midwinter Festival/Sun rebirth; err, I mean, Merry Christmas). It's still going on today. Look up the on-going canonization of Juan Diego (of the "Virgin of Guadalupe" fame - a folkloric cooption). Other religions do the same (albeit not as consistently - Islam, for one.) Anyway, it's a great way of gaining converts - just add-on what the peones are doing, claim it's your idea, and voila, removal of all pre-existing barriers to conversion.

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Wordswordsman
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 55 (17236)
09-12-2002 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Me
08-22-2002 3:24 PM


In the sense of the literal meaning of "the Church catholic" (ecclesia of Christ universal) as presented in Scriptures of the Bible, few Christian sects are a spin-off of the original first-century Church. You will be unable to show they all arose from the 'germ' of the RCC. We can only say the 'Protestant' churches (EOC, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc) were spin-offs of what is now known as the RCC, some thinking to revive and preserve the original beliefs with more-or-less accuracy. The present RCC is not representative of the nature of the first century Church, having constantly added elements with the continued self-claimed authority of canonization of scriptures not held holy before the spin-offs began. An example of that statement is their acceptance of the Apocrapha, which books were written hundreds of years after Christ, during which time Muhammad wrote the Quran with all its similar inaccuracies of history and contradictions against the Bible.
Many so-called "Christian" sects are almost entirely based on obvious heresies arising from poor Bible exegesis, or beliefs apart from the Bible, such as Mormonism, based on supposed texts found in N. America claiming Jesus visited the area and began a new concept of the religion.
Christian fellowships such as Baptist and Pentecostal, though diverse in some doctrines, both resulted from simple adherence to literal interpretations of Bible doctrines, not basing their beliefs on the Roman doctrines, though they independently adopted many common doctrines. Try obtaining a copy of "Trail of Blood" explaining how there always were groups of Believers from the beginning (Crucifixion of Christ onward) that resisted the waywardness of organized religion which tends to institutionalize simple belief into parcels of "men's traditions". There was much protest against the emerging Roman version long before there was a Pope in Rome.

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Wordswordsman
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 55 (17237)
09-12-2002 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by nos482
09-10-2002 7:46 AM


Jesus "birthed" (began on earth what was out of Heaven) what was later called "Christianity" after people began calling followers of Christ's teachings "Christians" at Antioch.
Because his disciples were unable to absorb and comprehend all Jesus had to teach, He sent back the Holy Spirit, who inspired those same disciples to say and write the many other things Jesus said would come later. The synoptic gospels (first 4 NT Books) recorded the actual contributions of Christ, his words and ministries. Paul (in his epistles) was the primary definer of Christian doctrine, independently harmonized with the writings of the other apostles. That Paul was converted then immediately separated from other Christians, having no contact with the apostles or their writings, yet coming out of his wilderness seclusion with doctrines not at all discordant with those of the original remaining 11 apostles, is very strong evidence of the inspired nature of his teachings. Paul was at least as equally inspired of the Spirit as Peter or John, as though Paul walked with Jesus a devoted disciple, not the avowed enemy of the sect of Christ, which he was many years until his conversion on the Damascus road.
The seed of truth as taught by Christ is present in and the basis of all the doctrines of all the apostles. Those men simply added to what Christ delivered, carrying out the command of Christ to do so by the power of the Spirit sent to them at the Day of Pentecost.

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nos482
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 55 (17257)
09-12-2002 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Wordswordsman
09-12-2002 7:46 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Wordswordsman:
Jesus "birthed" (began on earth what was out of Heaven) what was later called "Christianity" after people began calling followers of Christ's teachings "Christians" at Antioch.
Because his disciples were unable to absorb and comprehend all Jesus had to teach, He sent back the Holy Spirit, who inspired those same disciples to say and write the many other things Jesus said would come later. The synoptic gospels (first 4 NT Books) recorded the actual contributions of Christ, his words and ministries. Paul (in his epistles) was the primary definer of Christian doctrine, independently harmonized with the writings of the other apostles. That Paul was converted then immediately separated from other Christians, having no contact with the apostles or their writings, yet coming out of his wilderness seclusion with doctrines not at all discordant with those of the original remaining 11 apostles, is very strong evidence of the inspired nature of his teachings. Paul was at least as equally inspired of the Spirit as Peter or John, as though Paul walked with Jesus a devoted disciple, not the avowed enemy of the sect of Christ, which he was many years until his conversion on the Damascus road.
The seed of truth as taught by Christ is present in and the basis of all the doctrines of all the apostles. Those men simply added to what Christ delivered, carrying out the command of Christ to do so by the power of the Spirit sent to them at the Day of Pentecost.

Spending too much time alone in the woods? You know, there are other books you can get to bring with you instead of the bible to read.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by gene90, posted 09-12-2002 6:44 PM nos482 has replied

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 3822 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 25 of 55 (17287)
09-12-2002 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by nos482
09-12-2002 9:57 AM


[QUOTE][B]Spending too much time alone in the woods? You know, there are other books you can get to bring with you instead of the bible to read.[/QUOTE]
[/B]
Another fine, logic-filled post from Nos. Isn't that called "Trolling"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by nos482, posted 09-12-2002 9:57 AM nos482 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by nos482, posted 09-12-2002 8:30 PM gene90 has replied

  
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 55 (17299)
09-12-2002 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by gene90
09-12-2002 6:44 PM


Originally posted by gene90:
Another fine, logic-filled post from Nos. Isn't that called "Trolling"?
Non sequitur. As Mr. Spock said in the first movie, "Logic is not enough..."

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by gene90, posted 09-12-2002 10:42 PM nos482 has replied

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 3822 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 27 of 55 (17310)
09-12-2002 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by nos482
09-12-2002 8:30 PM


[QUOTE][B]Non sequitur(sic). As Mr. Spock said in the first movie, "Logic is not enough..."[/QUOTE]
[/B]
What else, from a philosophical perspective, do you need?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by nos482, posted 09-12-2002 8:30 PM nos482 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Me, posted 09-13-2002 7:10 AM gene90 has replied
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Philip
Member (Idle past 4722 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 28 of 55 (17324)
09-13-2002 1:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by countryLover198
07-27-2002 12:48 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by countryLover198:
[B]...someone like Jesus could create a new religion like christianity??
B][/QUOTE]
Or is it possible that someone like a Redeemer-God (Christ) invoked Christianity for many of us bigotted wretches striving to lay hold on the hope set before us, and/or perverted and denied (to varying extents).
For we clearly witness redemptive observations (empirical and metaphysical) that clearly manifest a Redeemer-ID (or Christ). It's only a denialist or argumentative theology (e.g., some Muslims, Voodoos, etc.) who fail to connect these redemptive and/or redeeming attributes in nature & men ... to the Cursed-Redeemer-God/Christ-crucified-buried-risen-ascended-with-all-redeeming-power

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Me
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 55 (17343)
09-13-2002 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by gene90
09-12-2002 10:42 PM


quote:
Originally posted by gene90:
[QUOTE][B]Non sequitur(sic). As Mr. Spock said in the first movie, "Logic is not enough..."[/QUOTE]
[/B]
What else, from a philosophical perspective, do you need?

At least one A Priori object and an Intention!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by gene90, posted 09-12-2002 10:42 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
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nos482
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 55 (17345)
09-13-2002 7:35 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by gene90
09-12-2002 10:42 PM


Originally posted by gene90:
What else, from a philosophical perspective, do you need?
And here lays your problem. You can't see any further than this. You're stuck at the start.

This message is a reply to:
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