Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 86 (8915 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 07-21-2019 12:50 AM
20 online now:
AZPaul3, DrJones* (2 members, 18 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: 4petdinos
Upcoming Birthdays: anglagard
Post Volume:
Total: 857,228 Year: 12,264/19,786 Month: 2,045/2,641 Week: 0/554 Day: 0/113 Hour: 0/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
1314
15
1617
...
31NextFF
Author Topic:   Who can be saved? A Christian perspective
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 117 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 211 of 460 (175431)
01-10-2005 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by jar
01-10-2005 6:42 AM


Re: What does that have to do with the topic?
ditto
This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by jar, posted 01-10-2005 6:42 AM jar has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31076
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 212 of 460 (175432)
01-10-2005 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by riVeRraT
01-10-2005 7:50 AM


Re: Holy Spirit
You're going to have to do better than that. If you have some point to make then spit it out. But off the wall comments that seem to have nothing to do with the subject simply won't cut it.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by riVeRraT, posted 01-10-2005 7:50 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by riVeRraT, posted 01-10-2005 11:11 AM jar has responded
 Message 229 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-12-2005 2:39 AM jar has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 117 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 213 of 460 (175472)
01-10-2005 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by jar
01-10-2005 7:53 AM


Re: Holy Spirit
Your the one here preaching the bible and what it means. If you know so much about the bible and Jesus's salvation, then you should know exactly what role a baptism of the Holy Spirit plays in your salvation.

Have you been baptised with the Holy Spirit?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by jar, posted 01-10-2005 7:53 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by jar, posted 01-10-2005 7:10 PM riVeRraT has responded

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 5070 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 214 of 460 (175481)
01-10-2005 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
09-11-2004 4:35 PM


Aslan is the only lion, Arie gur Yehuda

Eye has not seen nor ear heard the things God has prepared for those who love him. 1 Cor 2:9
Hope that helps.
Why not a bodily resurrection? Bodies made new, perfect, sinless, immortal? What other promise sounds more promising.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by jar, posted 09-11-2004 4:35 PM jar has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31076
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 215 of 460 (175609)
01-10-2005 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by riVeRraT
01-10-2005 11:11 AM


Re: Holy Spirit
Your the one here preaching the bible and what it means. If you know so much about the bible and Jesus's salvation, then you should know exactly what role a baptism of the Holy Spirit plays in your salvation.

Well, I have presented my view. Now if you have something to contribute, please feel free to do so. But so far you've said nothing.

Have you been baptised with the Holy Spirit?

Once again, what does this have to do with the thread? I think you must have a really hard time reading or understanding even basic concepts. Whether or not I have been "baptised with the Holy Spirit" has nothing to do with the issue of who can be saved.

If you believe that it does, then step up to the plate and explain YOUR position. That is what this thread is about, an opportunity for people to express their opinions and perspective.

But the thread is nearing its end so if you plan on contributing anything worthwhile, now is the time to do so.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by riVeRraT, posted 01-10-2005 11:11 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by riVeRraT, posted 01-10-2005 9:45 PM jar has responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 117 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 216 of 460 (175661)
01-10-2005 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by jar
01-10-2005 7:10 PM


Re: Holy Spirit
Wow, a simple question requiring a simple answer. But instead of just answering it you resort to word tactics to make it seem as if I have nothing valid to say. Just the way Jesus would do it.

Usually I commend you on your attitude and the way you answer people, but not this time. Oh well, lets see if we can make something out of it anyway.

In short I feel as though you are very wrong. The bible is pretty clear in many verses that you must be saved to enter the kingdom of God. Jesus taught us exactly how to do that.

I love the way you are jar, you have a peace about you that is to be commended. But you have conformed yourself to this world, to be accepted by this world rather than focusing in on him. You have made yourself your own God to worship. Or you have made God in your image rather seeing him for who and what he really is.

Here are some verses to back up what I am saying. We can go over them if you want to.


1 Peter 4:18
And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.

Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

1 Timothy 2:4
who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
(this also says that not all men can be saved)

2 Thessalonians 2:13
[ Stand Firm ] But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you [ Some manuscripts because God chose you as his firstfruits] to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:10
and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
(they perish)

1 Thessalonians 2:16
in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last. [ Or them fully]
(this also means that the wrath of God can come on you if your not saved)

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God–

Ephesians 2
Made Alive in Christ
1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions–it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God– 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

2 Corinthians 2:15
For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.

1 Corinthians 10:33
even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

1 Corinthians 5:5
hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature [ Or that his body; or that the flesh] may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:18
[ Christ the Wisdom and Power of God ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

There is more, but thats enough. I added some comments in brackets.

This one is for you thinking you don't even have to believe in God.


Romans 12
13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[a]

14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?

I think I understand where you are coming from. I think your attitude is that if we act like Christ, Only by following his second commandment this is enough. But its not enough. Jesus loved his father, like I love my real father, and my heavenly father. We would all love our fathers if the acted like the heavenly father, for it is in us to love and not hate. It is the deception of the enemy that makes us hate, and not believe in God.

It is said in John 3:16 that no-one enters heaven except through Jesus. I used to think, well what does that mean? If we act in a loving manor ad do his works, isn't that good enough?
Maybe Jesus is at the pearly gates and I can't enter unless I fake him out with a spin move first.

I ask if you have had an experience with the Holy Spirit because it is important for you. It is what changes you, and makes you not want to be like things of this world. That doesn't mean hate things of this world(people), but love them, just don't be like them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by jar, posted 01-10-2005 7:10 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by jar, posted 01-10-2005 10:00 PM riVeRraT has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31076
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 217 of 460 (175663)
01-10-2005 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by riVeRraT
01-10-2005 9:45 PM


Re: Holy Spirit
And in that whole bunch of rhetoric, where was there anything that has anything to do with your mention of Baptism in the Holy Spirit?

In addition, I don't think that you have any understanding of what i've been saying.

Let me try one more time.

People are saved by Grace. Period. It has NOTHING to do with their beliefs, it is not conditional, it is not tied to profession. It was a gift freely given.

It was not given to Christians, or Jews. It was given to mankind. Everyone.

But there is one potential gottcha. That gottcha is your behavior. You can screw things up. You can throw away the gift freely given.

And what behavior is it that is needed? Not all that much really, Love GOD and love others as you love yourself. That's all. Do your best. Do little things. Help others. Help the lady in line behind you unload her grocery cart. Help someone reach packages on the top shelves. Stop and carry a turtle across the road. Take the time to tell stories to little kids.

It's really that simple.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by riVeRraT, posted 01-10-2005 9:45 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by riVeRraT, posted 01-11-2005 12:57 AM jar has responded
 Message 221 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-11-2005 12:35 PM jar has not yet responded
 Message 224 by wmscott, posted 01-11-2005 5:06 PM jar has not yet responded
 Message 404 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-25-2014 12:01 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 117 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 218 of 460 (175708)
01-11-2005 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by jar
01-10-2005 10:00 PM


Re: Holy Spirit
Ok, first off, I must clearly be missing something here. First you say in your first message:

In fact, even if they deny the existence of GOD they can and will likely be saved.

Then go on to say:


And what behavior is it that is needed? Not all that much really, Love GOD and love others as you love yourself

But thats ok for you I guess, because you think that you don't need to acknowledge his existance to love him, but as I just wrote you, you do.


Romans 12
13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[a]

14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?

You ask me:
And in that whole bunch of rhetoric, where was there anything that has anything to do with your mention of Baptism in the Holy Spirit?

and my answer was in my last message:
I ask if you have had an experience with the Holy Spirit because it is important for you. It is what changes you, and makes you not want to be like things of this world.

Did you read the whole thing, all the answers are there, if you really read it, and understand it.

Yes we are saved by grace, but in all those scriptures it explains how to recieve that grace. That is why your experience with the Holy Spirit is so important.

Yes anyone can be saved, anyone who has faith, repents, and acknowledges Jesus. Ask and ye shall recieve, for we are saved by faith.

The real question is, what is faith. Surely loving something you do not believe in is not faith.

Also, none of my reply was meant to be rhetoric, it was meant to be love.

joke: I read that in the end times there would be a lot of confusion. :laugh:


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by jar, posted 01-10-2005 10:00 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by jar, posted 01-11-2005 10:39 AM riVeRraT has responded
 Message 222 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-11-2005 12:38 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31076
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 219 of 460 (175814)
01-11-2005 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by riVeRraT
01-11-2005 12:57 AM


Re: Holy Spirit
RR writes:

But thats ok for you I guess, because you think that you don't need to acknowledge his existance to love him, but as I just wrote you, you do.


Romans 12
13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[a]

14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?

And I'm not sure exactly what Bible you're reading but it appears to be the NIV and I think you want to really go back and check your reference. First, I believe it is Romans 10 not 12. Second, you show verses 13 and 14 as though they were one statement, one thought. They are not. Verse 13 ends one thought or paragraph with 14 begins another.

In Romans 10 Paul is talking to his congregation about what they should be doing to spread the word. He is acting as a bureauacrat, an organizer. And he is talking about the actions they need to take. Actions. Works.

Look at the paragraph that starts at 14.

14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

It's telling his group of proselytizers what they should be doing.

I ask if you have had an experience with the Holy Spirit because it is important for you. It is what changes you, and makes you not want to be like things of this world.

Again, that has NOTHING to do with this thread. In addition, it is NOT what you asked. You asked if I had been Baptised in the Holy Spirit.

The real question is, what is faith. Surely loving something you do not believe in is not faith.

And that is where I believe you are wrong. Read Matthew 25:31-46 and point out to me where belief is mentioned in it.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by riVeRraT, posted 01-11-2005 12:57 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by riVeRraT, posted 01-11-2005 4:37 PM jar has responded

  
ohnhai
Member (Idle past 3359 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 220 of 460 (175834)
01-11-2005 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
09-11-2004 11:22 AM


Note: this post is in response of the OP but coloured by the whole thread which I have just read. And so picks up some colour in regard to the sub-thread on the meaning of Mathew 25. Nor is it a direct attack on anyone here, just simply a satement of my views

As an Atheist, to talk of salvation and entitlement to heaven, is a pointless topic as I don’t believe in God and don’t believe in life after death. (we are biological machines and so believing in a soul as something separate and unique to the Human animal, that floats of to paradise or damnation is as daft as saying a computer has a soul that survives that final hardware failure)

So from my point of view no one gets ‘saved’. Arguing that this group or that individual don’t get saved ‘cause they don’t subscribe to our views’ clearly doesn’t demonstrate the love and humility and care and tolerance demonstrated by Christ in the bible as the way to live and thus enter the kingdom of heaven.

As Jar says Mathew 25, makes no mention of faith or belief as a pre requisite for being saved. All is says that if, over your life you have demonstrated that you have the capacity to treat even the most vile wretch with a selfless love, compassion care and support as if this wretch was your own child or god himself, then this will be your saving grace.

If you cant. If you are lost in your dolour bills an notes, if you are caught up in a selfish self-serving life style ignores suffering and injustice, if you help other people out of a need of recognition or to prove your righteousness in some way, and not simply because you can, then Mathew 25 clearly stated you will have some explaining to do.

I don’t believe in an after-life so being 'saved' is not an issue. But that doesn’t stop me trying to live a good, moral life just because I don’t believe in a God who will spank me because I don’t do this or believe in that.

So go ahead and argue and jostle for position all you like on the bus to oblivion, because what happens after matters not one jot, irrespective of your belief. What matters is what you do here and now. To quote Bill and Ted…. “ Be excellent to each other!” that's all that matters.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by jar, posted 09-11-2004 11:22 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

    
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 5070 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 221 of 460 (175866)
01-11-2005 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by jar
01-10-2005 10:00 PM


Re: Holy Spirit
Saved by faith and works. Mark 16:16

Heb.11:31
"By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace."

Jas.2:25
"Was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?"

Ephesians 2:8
"By grace are ye saved, through faith and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

First faith combined with works, grace cannot work on the unwilling heart and mind.
See it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by jar, posted 01-10-2005 10:00 PM jar has not yet responded

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 5070 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 222 of 460 (175869)
01-11-2005 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by riVeRraT
01-11-2005 12:57 AM


Re: Holy Spirit
These statements are directly contradictory.
Deny the existence of God.....

and

and what behavior is needed......


This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by riVeRraT, posted 01-11-2005 12:57 AM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 117 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 223 of 460 (175928)
01-11-2005 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by jar
01-11-2005 10:39 AM


Re: Holy Spirit

And I'm not sure exactly what Bible you're reading but it appears to be the NIV and I think you want to really go back and check your reference. First, I believe it is Romans 10 not 12. Second, you show verses 13 and 14 as though they were one statement, one thought. They are not. Verse 13 ends one thought or paragraph with 14 begins another.

Yes it was Romans 10, typo.
Verse 13 ends, and yes 14 starts a new paragraph. Yes Paul was teaching people how to preach. What he said was how can they believe in someone they don't know?

He's teaching us that if we call on the name of the Lord (which is pretty hard to do if you don't believe in him) you can be saved.
Then he goes on to teach us the importance of telling people who he is, so that they may believe in him, then call on him.

That being said, it makes no difference the way it seemed it was phrased. The verses were not taken out of cantext at all, and I think you still missed the point.


It's telling his group of proselytizers what they should be doing.

No it's telling them what they should be doing and why.


Again, that has NOTHING to do with this thread. In addition, it is NOT what you asked. You asked if I had been Baptised in the Holy Spirit.

It has EVERYTHING to do with this thread. Haven't you read the verses in my reply. All of them have something to do with being saved through the Holy Spirit. I am not saying that is the only way to be saved, yet, I am stilling learning. I think that if you believe in God by faith, accept Jesus, and do his works, out of faith, you could be saved. But if you do all those things, he promises the Holy Spirit. So I wonder if you can actually be saved without having experienced the Holy Spirit.

Women who give birth can be saved, but they must continue their faith.
Children are saved, as they are the closest to God. In fact the bible teaches us to be like children in seeking God.

I want to know where your coming from. I want to know why you think that everyone is saved. If you had an experience with the Holy Spirit, but then went on to preach what your preaching, I would find it strange. If you did not experience the Holy Spirit, then I would understand why you felt the way you do. I used to feel the same way.

I find it immpossible to explain to someone what the Holy Spirit feels like, and what it means to me. I guess that is because it is individualized to each of us. We can only spread the love and hope that a person chooses to seek him, and call on him, and do the right things in the Lord's eyes.


And that is where I believe you are wrong. Read Matthew 25:31-46 and point out to me where belief is mentioned in it.

Two things about that.

First my own uneducated interpretation that God gave me through prayer. I feel that he is teaching us to take care of one another, and how important it is. All the people on the earth represent who God is. If we take care of each other, then we take care of Jesus, without actually taking care of Jesus himself. This does not mean that we do not have to believe in God, it just means that if we do not have an opportunity to take care of Jesus personally, then taking care of all his people is like the same thing. This also happens at his second coming, and may not include everyone who died already.

If you believe this to be true, then you believe Jesus's words to be true. This one little section of the bible does not mention faith, but it doesn not mention not having faith or believing. If you read the rest of Jesus's words it's plain to see his love for the father, and the importance of believing in him. The bible must be understood as a whole. It is the only way to fully understand God's word. It takes a long time to do this, I myself am still learning. There is no question the importance of believing in him to be saved.

Second. The NIV study bible says that it happens at the begining of an earthly millenial kingdom. It's purpose will be to determine who will allowed to enter the kingdom. The criterion for judgement will be the kind of treatment shown to the Jewish people ("these brothers of mine") during the preceding great tribulation period. Ultimately, how a person treats the Jewish people will reveal whether or not he is saved.
Their second translation of these verses is:
The judgement reffered to occurs at the great white throne at the end of the age. Its purpose will be to determine who will be saved and who will be consigned to eternal punishment in hell. The basis for judgement will be whether love is shown to Gods people.

Topic question (from me):
If Jesus teaches us to treat all the way would have treated him, and it is equivelant, and we don't do it in his name, then who taught us?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by jar, posted 01-11-2005 10:39 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by jar, posted 01-11-2005 5:12 PM riVeRraT has responded

  
wmscott
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 580
From: Sussex, WI USA
Joined: 12-19-2001


Message 224 of 460 (175934)
01-11-2005 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by jar
01-10-2005 10:00 PM


We have to worship God in the way he wants, not the way we want.
Dear Jar;

More is required than just being a good person. There is the issue of God's sovereignty, the Devil has challenged the rightness of God's rulership and has claimed that no one will unselfishly remain faithful to God under test. So more is involved than not running over turtles.

One of the most important points in the Bible is that we have to worship God in the way he wants, not the way we want. (Proverbs 14:12) "There exists a way that is upright before a man, but the ways of death are the end of it afterward." We are not free to worship God however we chose, Paul wrote the Corinthians.
(1 Corinthians 1:10) "Now I exhort YOU, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that YOU should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among YOU, but that YOU may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought."

Obviously if God didn't approve of the divisions in the congregation, Paul wrote under inspiration of the holy spirit, God doesn't approve of the divisions in christendom. We are told that God is a god of order, not disorder, so he would never of approve of the religious mess we have today. We are also told that the way to salvation is a narrow door and few are the ones finding, which means the majority of christendom must be on the wrong path. Paul said that many would be misled into ways of worship or religions that would not meet with divine approval.

(1 Timothy 4:1-3) "However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created"

(Acts 20:29-30) "I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves."

Now the people following these false leaders were mislead, they would think they were still serving God acceptably, but they would not be. All they had to do was to check the Bible and see that what they were being taught was in conflict with scripture, and then to get out of such a false religion and find those who were worshipping God in harmony with what the Bible teaches.

Many of the common doctrines taught by most of the religions in christendom are in complete conflict with scripture, those religions are not in god's favor since such doctrines are at 1 Timothy 4:1-3 said to be inspired by demons. We can not be part of a religion with 'demon inspired' doctrines and have God's favor. God wants us to worship him in spirit and truth, not lies and false doctrines.

(John 4:22-24) "YOU worship what YOU do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation originates with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth."

He was referring to Samaritans who had a form of worship of Jehovah but they had changed a few things from the way they had been taught, now if the worship of the Samaritans he was referring was unacceptable to God, so would be that of the religions today who have done basically the same thing.

(Mark 7:7) "It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men."

He was referring to Jews who add just merely added things to the way they were supposed to worship Jehovah, now if the worship of the Jews he was referring was in vain, how much more so would be that of the religions today with demon inspired doctrines.

So it most certainly is not up to us to find a religion that we like, we have to find the religion God likes.

More information on the issue of "What Does God Require of Us?" is covered at this link and addresses what is True Christianity and what the Bible has say on a number of basic questions that many people have.
http://www.watchtower.org/library/rq/index.htm

Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by jar, posted 01-10-2005 10:00 PM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by riVeRraT, posted 01-11-2005 10:42 PM wmscott has not yet responded
 Message 239 by lfen, posted 02-03-2005 3:49 PM wmscott has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 31076
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 225 of 460 (175937)
01-11-2005 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by riVeRraT
01-11-2005 4:37 PM


Re: Holy Spirit
Topic question (from me):
If Jesus teaches us to treat all the way would have treated him, and it is equivelant, and we don't do it in his name, then who taught us?

I think you left some words out but I believe I understand what you are asking.

The answer is, "Who cares?"

It is the action, doing what is right. If you only do what is right because you were told to do it, or for some reward, then the whole point of Jesus message is lost.

Wherever you look in the Bible, whether it is John or Mark or Matthew, when you read the whole thing, time after time it comes back to what you do. It is not what you say, not what you profess that determines if you love GOD, it's what you do.

I want to know where your coming from. I want to know why you think that everyone is saved.

I've laid that out pretty thoroughly. I know everyone is saved because that is what GOD said. I know that the gift was freely and unconditionaly given. It was not given to only a few, but to all mankind.

The one thing that was asked was that you not screw up too badly. Try your best to love GOD and love others as you love yourself.

And how do you love GOD? Not through professing. Not through declaration. You show your love of GOD through acts, behavior.

If you had an experience with the Holy Spirit, but then went on to preach what your preaching, I would find it strange.

Totally immaterial. You have not yet shown how that is related to the topic in anyway.

First my own uneducated interpretation that God gave me through prayer. I feel that he is teaching us to take care of one another, and how important it is. All the people on the earth represent who God is. If we take care of each other, then we take care of Jesus, without actually taking care of Jesus himself.

Okay.

This does not mean that we do not have to believe in God, it just means that if we do not have an opportunity to take care of Jesus personally, then taking care of all his people is like the same thing.

If it's the same thing, it's the same thing.

This also happens at his second coming, and may not include everyone who died already.

The best information in the Bible relating to what exactly happens at the second coming and judgement is Matthew 25:31-46. Again, please show where in there profession or belief is mentioned?

REMEMBER, in Matthew 25 Jesus is speaking to his followers. All of them, sheep and goat alike were followers and had professed Jesus. The goats are shocked. They really believe they should be in the special group. The challenge him saying "Hey Bossman, when did we deny you any of those things?" When the second coming actually happens I imagine that what you'll see is that almost all the goats are Preachers. Christian Preachers. Televangelists. The goats will be folk like Jerry Falwell, Benny Hinn, Pat Roberston, Jim Bakker, Gene Scott, Oral Roberts, Bob Larson, Henry Lyons, Robert Tillman and the like.

One general note: The NIV plays pretty loose with the scriptures and adds a whole bunch of commentary to color the interpretation. I don't take it very seriously. It's more the Readers Digest version of the translations.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by riVeRraT, posted 01-11-2005 4:37 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by riVeRraT, posted 01-11-2005 10:36 PM jar has responded

  
RewPrev1
...
1314
15
1617
...
31NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019