The Inerrancy of the Bible

The bible calls all flying creatures it seems by the same hebrew word. Genesis chapter 1 confirms fowl are simply the many different creatures that fly, including the bat & the insects. The bat is being included amoung the fowl that your not to eat, don't forget that insects are not avian fowl either, and these verses are including the (insect)fowl that creepeth on all four being unclean along with the mammalian bat.It then goes on to say you can eat the fowl (insects) that creep on all four yet that have legs above the their feet, to leap you may eat. kjv Lev 11:21.kjv Lev 11:13 And these428 are they which ye shall have in abomination8262 among4480 the fowls;5775 they shall not3808 be eaten,398 they1992 are an abomination:8263 (853) the eagle,5404 and the ossifrage,6538 and the osprey,5822
kjv Lev 11:14 And the vulture,1676 and the kite344 after his kind;4327
kjv Lev 11:15 (853) Every3605 raven6158 after his kind;4327
Lev 11:16 And the owl,1323, 3284 and the night hawk,8464 and the cuckoo,7828 and the hawk5322 after his kind,4327
kjv Lev 11:17 And the little owl,3563 and the cormorant,7994 and the great owl,3244
kjv Lev 11:18 And the swan,8580 and the pelican,6893 and the gier-eagle,7360
kjv Lev 11:19 And the stork,2624 the heron601 after her kind,4327 and the lapwing,1744 and the bat.5847
kjv Lev 11:20 All3605 fowls5775 that creep,8318 going1980 upon5921 all four,702 shall be an abomination8263 unto you.
kjv Lev 11:21 Yet389 (853) these2088 may ye eat398 of every4480, 3605 flying5775 creeping thing8318 that goeth1980 upon5921 all four,702 which834 have legs3767 above4480, 4605 their feet,7272 to leap5425 withal2004 upon5921 the earth;776H5775

‛o^ph
ofe
From H5774; a bird (as covered with feathers, or rather as covering with wings), often collective: - bird, that flieth, flying, fowl.This message has been edited by Tom, 01-11-2005 21:35 AM

The Waldenses with their blood preserved 1 John 5:7, and their new testament texts of the New Testament. Erasumus was chosen by God to restore these recieved texts because he was a Catholic and the Lord Jesus included his testimony the Book of Revelation,When Erasumus restored the recieved texts, you were given the New testament without error. You can credit the Waldenses part, because of the Blood of the Waldenses given to preserve the texts without error and the Catholic Churches fear of changing any of the wording of the Book of Revelation.The Catholic Church according to the Waldenses changed some of the wording in the Jerome bible, and thus Waldenses refusing to the death to acknowledge the pope having a right to change the wording of their bible, never accepted what they said was the Catholic tampered version of Gods Words, the Jerome latin bible.The Catholic Church however didn't change the Wording of Book of Revelation because they feared the curse given to the changing of any of the words written in in this Book. The Waldenses said the Catholic Church tampered with other manuscripts within the New Testament. The Waldenses were purists in that they believed in preserving the Words of the original manuscripts. God Interestingly used both the Waldenses and the Catholic Church in preserving his Word, and it was a Catholic by the name of Erasumus that restored the recieved texts. Erasamus is the Catholic believer in Christ that has been said by the Catholic church the egg that hatched Luther and the reformation.The Gutenberg press however was invented by Gutenberg to print these restored texts in German, but once Gutenberg perfected his press and actually started printing the Gutenberg bible they called his loan and confiscated his printing presses.God then use King James to preserved his Word in the creation of the Authorized King James Bible. With the printing of the Authorized King James Version and because the Catholic church was powerless to stop the Printing of the English bible after the Spanish Armada was destroyed. God then Blessed the British Empire carrying his seed (the Word) to all the world.The Catholic Church started printing the Douay Rhiems bible based off the Jerome latin bible in English for the Catholic Believers in Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church had to come out of the closet and supply an English Douay Rheim version of the Jerome Bible or they would of started reading the Waldenses based Bible version as is expressed within the textus receptus written in English. What is interesting is that the ana-baptists included the Catholics manuscripts of the Book of the Revelations. We have the perfect inspired inerrant Words from God clothed in English within the Authorized King James Version.Chick.com: 404 errorThe VaudoisNow the "Waldensian," or "Vaudois" Bibles stretch from about 157 to the 1400s AD. The fact is, according to John Calvin's successor Theodore Beza, that the Vaudois received the Scriptures from missionaries of Antioch of Syria in the 120s AD and finished translating it into their Latin language by 157 AD. This Bible was passed down from generation, until the Reformation of the 1500s, when the Protestants translated the Vaudois Bible into French, Italian, etc. This Bible carries heavy weight when finding out what God really said. John Wesley and Jonathan Edwards believed, as most of the Reformers, that the Vaudois were the descendants of the true Christians, and that they preserved the Christian faith for the Bible-believing Christians today.A Trail of EvidenceBut during this same time, we find mention of 1 John 5:7, from about 200 AD through the 1500s. Here is a useful timeline of references to this verse: 200 AD Tertullian quoted the verse in his Apology, Against Praxeas
250 AD Cyprian of Carthage, wrote, "And again, of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it is written: "And the three are One" in his On The Lapsed, On the Novatians, (see note for Old Latin)
350 AD Priscillian referred to it [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. xviii, p. 6.]
350 AD Idacius Clarus referred to it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 62, col. 359.]
350 AD Athanasius referred to it in his De Incarnatione
398 AD Aurelius Augustine used it to defend Trinitarianism in De Trinitate against the heresy of Sabellianism
415 AD Council of Carthage appealed to 1 John 5:7 when debating the Arian belief (Arians didn't believe in the deity of Jesus Christ)
450-530 AD Several orthodox African writers quoted the verse when defending the doctrine of the Trinity against the gainsaying of the Vandals. These writers are:
A) Vigilius Tapensis in "Three Witnesses in Heaven"
B) Victor Vitensis in his Historia persecutionis [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. vii, p. 60.]
C) Fulgentius in "The Three Heavenly Witnesses" [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 65, col. 500.]
500 AD Cassiodorus cited it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 70, col. 1373.]
550 AD Old Latin ms r has it
550 AD The "Speculum" has it [The Speculum is a treatise that contains some good Old Latin scriptures.]
750 AD Wianburgensis referred to it
800 AD Jerome's Vulgate has it [It was not in Jerome's original Vulgate, but was brought in about 800 AD from good Old Latin manuscripts.]
1000s AD miniscule 635 has it
1150 AD minuscule ms 88 in the margin
1300s AD miniscule 629 has it
157-1400 AD Waldensian (that is, Vaudois) Bibles have the verse
1500 AD ms 61 has the verse
Even Nestle's 26th edition Greek New Testament, based upon the corrupt Alexandrian text, admits that these and other important manuscripts have the verse: 221 v.l.; 2318 Vulgate [Claromontanus]; 629; 61; 88; 429 v.l.; 636 v.l.; 918; l; r.This message has been edited by Tom, 01-11-2005 23:46 AM

Dan, Would you not agree the translators included insects that creepeth on four feet as a fowl. Did not the translators include all the creatures that fly in their use of the word fowl. They even said the insects with 4 feet with two legs for jumping these fowl you can eat. When the translators called the insects fowl too, then it brings the bat as a fowl too into context. The Word simply called them all by name, the bat, the locust, the grasshopper, the beetle. There is no confusion it quite clear as written.kjv Lev 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
kjv Lev 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
kjv Lev 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
kjv Lev 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

Arachnophilia, The Lord Jesus did give us a prayer: The Our Father to believers, one reason given is so the Father would not lead you into temptation and to deliver us from evil.It would appear that Satan caused David to number his people, and that the Lord requested him to number the people. We see all through the bible instances where Satan gets permission from God to tempt man, this appears no different. Satan was not allowed to persecute Job until he recieved permission from the Lord.kjv Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.As Christians when we pray to Our Heavenly Father, our special prayer given to us by the Lord, requests that the Father would not lead us into temptation but would deliver us from evil.kjv Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.The bible verse calls lucifer the son of the morning, not the bright and morning star. I agree that Lucifer was made through the Word God the Son, because all things were made through him, even the son of the morning, which is a reference to Satan, because of how it says he fell. The book of revelations says he was cast to the earth, so woe to the inhabitants of the earth.kjv Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.kjv Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.This message has been edited by Bret, 01-12-2005 13:16 AM

Cthulhu, Granted the beetle has 4 feet for creeping but it also has two legs for jumping. Its these two extra legs that the bible says makes them clean to eat.

Dan, It appears your in agreement that the bible is inerrant your only problem was the translators using the word fowl for the all inclusive hebrew root word.

Dan Carroll, Since you believe the Hebrew and Greek texts is inerrant and it was just the translators that at times used a poor choice of words in their translation. Heres a free download site that includes the Strongs Hebrew and Greek root words so your not confused by the words the translators used like their use of the word fowl that they clearly used in reference to all the creatures that fly.e-Sword: Free Bible Study for the PC | Downloads

Dan Carol, I was not talking about some of the other bible versions based off the Catholic Jerome bible manuscripts. I'm talking about the translators that translated the Textus Receptus into English.

Dan Carol, If your talking about the inerrancy of the KJV you have to include the Hebrew Greek manuscripts that the translators used. The Gutenberg bible used the textus receptus, meaning this part is the same as the KJV, one is written in German, the other in English. I was not talking about the other bible versions using compromised manuscripts such as the Jerome bible, I'm on your page in talking about the textus receptus, in respect to the KJV.

Coragyps, The verses seem to indicate some beetles have two legs above their four creeping feet for jumping 6 total. These appear to be clean to eat, not sure about those your talkin about? If they have more than two legs for jumping they would be unclean. If they have more than 4 feet for creeping or have more or less than two legs for jumping they would be unclean.kjv Lev 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
kjv Lev 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.

Percy, If you look at the verses that include the bat with the insect that fly that are unclean to eat it becomes clear the issue is not about the bat being a bird or a butterfly. Its simply talking about what creatures that fly that are unclean to eat, when you run into little issues like this you simply confir with the Hebrew or Greek to see what root word was used by the translators, because some word meanings has changed a bit since the KJV was translated.The other bible versions they say are easier to understand because they changed some of the wording, but they are using different root manuscripts, and not based on the textus receptus. The New King James Version has been cut to conform to these other flawed manuscripts. http://www.nisbett.com/versions/bible08.htmThe English language has no doubt changed in respect to the use of fowl meaning feathery birds. At the time the translators used this word it appears its was the best word to encompass all the winged creatures that fly.Fowl
FOWL, n. [L. fugio, fugo, Gr. and signifying the flying animal.]A flying or winged animal; the generic name of certain animals that move through the air by the aid of wings.

Coragyps, The Hebrew root word could mean a form of locust. I would not eat any beetles. Grasshopper legs are cool, but beetle juice is not cool. Unless you have more information that there is a beetle that flies and that jumps with legs that are above 4 feet they use for creeping, thats safe to eat.We couldn't find that Web page (Error 404) / Nous ne pouvons trouver cette page Web (Erreur 404)The verse was pretty much in context with locust, grasshopper like creatures being clean to eat. Leaning there is another particular type of grasshopper/locust, that the translators were not aware of, because beetle juice is not cool.kjv Lev 11:21 Yet389 (853) these2088 may ye eat398 of every4480, 3605 flying5775 creeping thing8318 that goeth1980 upon5921 all four,702 which834 have legs3767 above4480, 4605 their feet,7272 to leap5425 withal2004 upon5921 the earth;776kjv Lev 11:22 Even (853) these428 of4480 them ye may eat;398 (853) the locust697 after his kind,4327 and the bald locust5556 after his kind,4327 and the beetle2728 after his kind,4327 and the grasshopper2284 after his kind.4327kjv Lev 11:23 But all3605 other flying5775 creeping things,8318 which834 have four702 feet,7272 shall be an abomination8263 unto you.H2728

cha^rgo^l
khar-gole'
From H2727; the leaping insect, that is, a locust: - beetle.This message has been edited by Bret, 01-12-2005 18:06 AM

Percy, This is why you should use the strongs concordance when running into conflicts with the word choices of the translators of the authorized KJV, you should never cut the textus receptus to make it agree with the minority texts. This is what is called taking away from Gods Word.The problem is that all the other English bible versions that are suppose to be easier to read uses the corrupted minority texts. The Textus receptus is the only New Testament texts that disagrees with the other bible versions, because its the only English bible version based on the textus receptus.Gail Riplinger apparently is not to keen on the Strongs Concordance, so I just downloaded the Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions as it wasn't on Gails partial list of corrupted resources. This Hebrew concordance agrees the Hebrew word is refering to a kind of locust as we had already ciphered. I consider Gail more an authority on the inerrancy of the King James Bible Version having researched the problem's within the Corrupt Manuscripts which are the basis of the other compromised bible versions.H2728

cha^rgo^l
BDB Definition:
1) a kind of locust, a leaping creature
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H2727
Same Word by TWOT Number: 734aAVPublications - Thank you for visiting!Partial List of Corrupt Manuscripts, Critical Editions, Lexicons, Sigla and Foreign Versions, etc.Aleph (Sinaiticus)B (Vaticanus)Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (Hebrew O.T.)Gesenius (Brown, Driver & Briggs) Lexicon of the Old TestamentLeningrad manuscript B19a (Lenningrad Codex)Liddell & Scott Greek Lexicon'M' Sigla (seen in the NKJV and the two following Critical texts)
Hodge-Farstad Majority Text;Pierpoint/Robinson Majority TextNestle Greek Text (Editions 1 - 27)Samaritan PentateuchSeptuagintStrong's Concordance (his Greek & Hebrew Dictionary)Thayers Greek LexiconThe so-called "literal" English translations in Green's Interlinear N.T. & O.T. and Berry's Textus ReceptusTheological Dictionary of the New Testament by Gerhard KittelUnited Bible Society (UBS) Greek Text (Editions 1-4)Vines Expository DictionaryWescott and Hort Greek textZodhiates Word Study or "Key" Study Bibles & DictionariesTo learn "how" to study the Bible without the use of corrupt reference materials see appendix C of New Age Bible Versions

It appears to be a generalization of the age Noah was when he had his three sons. Ham is the youngest son, but Shem was born when Noah was 502 years old. kjv Genesis 11:10 He had 4,000 large stalls however each of these were divided into 10 stalls. This means he had both 4,000 stalls and 40,000 stalls. Jotham reigned for 16 years and started his reign when he became 25 years old. When Jotham was 20 years old Remaliah reigned in Jotham's place (stead) for 5 years. 2 kings 15:30 Ahaziah was the King of Judah for 2 years and the King of Israel in Jorams place (stead) for 1 year. Ahaziah was 22 years when he began his reign of Judah, which he Ahaziah represented the 42nd year of the house of Ahab. The house of Ahab ended after these 42 years plus his two years of reigning as king of Judah. Some sources say it was a misprint 42 years should be 22 years? I'm having a hard time making sense of the House of Ahab being 42 years old. The Kiel and Dilitzsch old testament commentary suggests is a misprint. I'm still up in the air but it appears not an intentional error but possibly an orthographical error?2Ch_22:2
The number 42 is an orthographical error for 22 ( having been changed into ),Ahaziah began his reign of Judah when he was 22 years old, he took reign of Judah as King Ahaziah when the house of Ahab was 42 years old kjv 2 chronicles 22:2. He took reign of Judah in the 11th year of Joram reign as King of Israel, then reigned as king of Israel along with Judah for 1 year in Jerusalem, it say he reigned in Joram stead kjv 2 kings 8:24. It says he went to see Joram who was healing in Jezrel and then both he and Joram were killed by Jehu ending the house of Ahab after 42 years plus his two years reigning as the King of Judah and as the king of Israel in Joram place while joram was in Jezreel healing. Ahaziah died when he was 24 years old, and representing the house of Ahab which ended after 44 years when Jehu killed both Joram and Ahaziah in 2 kings chapter 9.2 Chronicles 22:2. In Chronicles its refering to the age of the house of ahab when Ahaziah began his reign. Jehu then fullfilled another prophecy ending the house of Ahab.Ahaziah
'ăchazya^h / 'ăchazya^hu^
BDB Definition:
Ahaziah = Jehovah (Yahu) holds (possesses)
1) ruler of Israel, son of Ahab
2) ruler of Judah, son of Jehoram (Joram)
Part of Speech: noun proper masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H270 and H3050This message has been edited by Tom, 01-13-2005 01:55 AM

purpledawn, The Authorized KJV is still the only uncut bible version of Gods Words. All other bible versions have cut from the Words of God, because they are based on the older corrupted manuscripts.The Church preserved the New Testament, and the Catholic Church preserved the book of Revelations. The majority of the texts agree with the KJV, and not with your NIV bible.We all know the majority of the bible versions agree with the Catholic minority texts. This makes the Authorized KJV the only version that stands out in contrast. The reason given for the Waldenses not accepting the Catholic Jerome bible was they said the Catholic Church cut from the writtings of the New testament. The Catholic Church apparently didn't cut from the book of revelations because of the warning contained within this book. What Erasamus did was give us an uncut version of Gods Words. The other versions use the corrupted cut minority manuscripts from which the Jerome bible is based upon. When you read from the NIV version its a man made version of Gods Words cutting words, for example words like Holy. If you cut Holy apostles, then they don't need to live Holy lives. God said to not cut from his Word, and I see no instance that the KJV has been cut. Its for this reason the the KJV is the Word that has been preserved for all generations. Its a Holy Bible, not a bible version thats offended by including references to live holy lives.http://www.avpublications.com/...ue/nabv/nabv_html_tract.htmNIV, NASB Citation KJVmen 2 Pet. 1:21 holy men
angels Matt. 25:31 holy angels
brethren I Thess. 5:27 holy brethren
prophets Rev. 22:6 holy prophets
apostles and prophets Rev. 18:20 holy apostles and prophets
Spirit John 7:39 Holy Ghost
Spirit I Cor. 2:13 Holy Ghost
Spirit Matt.12:31 Holy Ghost
Spirit Acts 6:3 Holy Ghost
Spirit Acts 8:18 Holy Ghost"Satan cometh immediately and
taketh away the word . . ."Mark 4:15