The Inerrancy of the Bible

well, first of all, i would like to state that it is my educated opinion that the KJV (or any other version of the bible) is far from perfect. all translations have their strengths and weaknesses, and even the source documents have their strengths and weaknesses. unfortunately we do not have the originals texts for the books of the bible. the kjv is the 1611 translation of the masoretic text, which of course discounts the strengths of the septuagint (earlier, but in greek). a good translation refers to boths texts whenever possible.your class would do better to actually study and examine the history of the bible, as literature. it is far more interesting than any "bible study" type class i have ever been to. as already mentioned, this verse is talking about the words jesus spoke. john is actually blasphemous in that he calls a mortal being a deity. if you study the rest of the bible you will notice that this is a big no-no. even if jesus *IS* god, to call him god and treat him as such is wrong. here's two to boggle your class's minds then:

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1. the bible often repeats itself. samuel/kings and chronicles contain so much of the exact same material that it is clear that the author of one borrow from the other. however, sometimes things get changed up. here's an example.

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2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
  —"King James Version"

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1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
  —"King James Version"

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feel free to check the rest of the passages; they are talking about the same event.

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2. here's another God/Devil mix up.

quote:

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Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
  —"King James Version"

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quote:

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Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.
  —"King James Version"

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now, these of course are sort of rigged. neither has to be an issue of errancy, if you are willing to accept the theological connotations. but i like give these to people (and classes) that boast of refuting inerrency, and answering any questions, because it's fun to see them tapdance around the verses were it says that YHWH = Satan and Jesus = Lucifer.

Dan, Would you not agree the translators included insects that creepeth on four feet as a fowl. Did not the translators include all the creatures that fly in their use of the word fowl. They even said the insects with 4 feet with two legs for jumping these fowl you can eat. When the translators called the insects fowl too, then it brings the bat as a fowl too into context. The Word simply called them all by name, the bat, the locust, the grasshopper, the beetle. There is no confusion it quite clear as written.kjv Lev 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
kjv Lev 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
kjv Lev 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
kjv Lev 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

Uh....is that the one that says "the circle of the Earth?" The one with talking snakes and donkeys? With houses that catch leprosy? That one?

It would seem that way, yes. Thanks for tossing up another error; insects are not fowl either. See... you seem to be saying that because they called something else fowl that isn't, that means it's not an error. And that's so freakin' nuts I don't even know where to start.They can call a bat or an insect fowl all they please. They can call them hermaphrodite monkeys with eight fingers where their nipples should be, for that matter. Either way, it's an error to do so."Fowl" and "flying creature" are not interchangable terms. To use "fowl" when you mean "flying creature" is an error. Sure... it's quite clear that they messed up.

And you go and quote the verses that say that locusts, beetles, and grasshoppers have 4 feet, while arguing for Biblical inerrancy. Do you see anything wrong with this?

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Proudly attempting to Google-Bomb Kent "The Lying Dumbass" Hovind's website

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Lying Dumbass

Arachnophilia, The Lord Jesus did give us a prayer: The Our Father to believers, one reason given is so the Father would not lead you into temptation and to deliver us from evil.It would appear that Satan caused David to number his people, and that the Lord requested him to number the people. We see all through the bible instances where Satan gets permission from God to tempt man, this appears no different. Satan was not allowed to persecute Job until he recieved permission from the Lord.kjv Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.As Christians when we pray to Our Heavenly Father, our special prayer given to us by the Lord, requests that the Father would not lead us into temptation but would deliver us from evil.kjv Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.The bible verse calls lucifer the son of the morning, not the bright and morning star. I agree that Lucifer was made through the Word God the Son, because all things were made through him, even the son of the morning, which is a reference to Satan, because of how it says he fell. The book of revelations says he was cast to the earth, so woe to the inhabitants of the earth.kjv Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.kjv Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.This message has been edited by Bret, 01-12-2005 13:16 AM

Cthulhu, Granted the beetle has 4 feet for creeping but it also has two legs for jumping. Its these two extra legs that the bible says makes them clean to eat.

Dan, It appears your in agreement that the bible is inerrant your only problem was the translators using the word fowl for the all inclusive hebrew root word.

Okay, now I'm just wondering how someone can read a post that points out an error in a text, and respond by saying, "Oh, so you think the text has no errors!"This is why the majority of believers make me shake my head in amazement. Which means, of course, that the translators messed up. Which means that the KJV is not inerrant.What part of this idea is giving you trouble?

Dan Carroll, Since you believe the Hebrew and Greek texts is inerrant and it was just the translators that at times used a poor choice of words in their translation. Heres a free download site that includes the Strongs Hebrew and Greek root words so your not confused by the words the translators used like their use of the word fowl that they clearly used in reference to all the creatures that fly.e-Sword: Free Bible Study for the PC | Downloads

No, but apparently you believe in putting words in my mouth. What does your god have to say about bearing false witness in this fashion, out of curiosity?There is an error in the KJV text that is possibly due to a mistranslation from the Hebrew. It does not logically follow that the Hebrew and Greek versions are perfect. Since the subject at hand was the KJV, I brought up a glaring error in the KJV, and didn't try to sidetrack things into other versions, as you are attempting to do.(At this point, I edited out a bit that, although extremely funny, was pretty gross, even for me.)This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 01-12-2005 13:39 AM

Dan Carol, I was not talking about some of the other bible versions based off the Catholic Jerome bible manuscripts. I'm talking about the translators that translated the Textus Receptus into English.

Bret, let's nail this right down to the ground, okay? If you are talking about anything other than the King James Version, then what you are saying is irrelevant.The original poster was asking for errors in the King James Version. There are plenty of other threads on this forum which deal with general, cross-version, cross-language biblical inerrancy.If you wish to discuss one of these versions, head to one of those threads, or start your own. The topic at hand is errors in the King James Version.

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"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river, infidels shiver In the stench of belief
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late
I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw ringing in my ears"
-Beck

What? The? Fork?
Which beetles have extra legs for jumping? Elaters seem to use all six of theirs, and I've yet to see a cockroach or a stag beetle jump, even a baby-step jump. What are you talking about, Bret?

Dan Carol, If your talking about the inerrancy of the KJV you have to include the Hebrew Greek manuscripts that the translators used. The Gutenberg bible used the textus receptus, meaning this part is the same as the KJV, one is written in German, the other in English. I was not talking about the other bible versions using compromised manuscripts such as the Jerome bible, I'm on your page in talking about the textus receptus, in respect to the KJV.