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Author Topic:   Scientists with a belief in creationism
Montag
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 30 (178285)
01-18-2005 6:12 PM


Hello all, I just have to ask a question that has been buggin my mind lately. And to make this clear no I'm NOT a creationist and do not support thier "science" in any way shape or form. Anywho, I was browsing ICR and found a list of some scientists who actually believe in creationism.
here are a few examples
Duane Gish, Ph.D. Biochemistry (ICR)
He has a B.S. in Chemistry from UCLA and a Ph.D. in Biochemistry from the University of California (Berkeley). He spent a total of 18 years in biochemical research; with Cornell University Medical College (NYC), with the Virus Laboratory, U of Cal-Berkley and and on the research staff of the Upjohn Pharmaceutical Company (Michigan). He has published approximately 40 articles in scientific journals.
For detailed information on his accomplishments, etc., click here.
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Ken Cumming, Ph.D. Biology (ICR)
He has a B.S. in Biology/Chemistry with honors from Tufts University, a Masters in Biology from Harvard, and the Ph.D. in Biology with a major in Ecology and a minor in Biochemistry from Harvard University. He has been on the faculties at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University (Virginia Tech), the University of Wisconsin at La Crosse, and Western Wisconsin Technological Institute at La Crosse. During this time, he supervised five doctoral dissertations and about twenty-five master's theses on a wide range of biological topics. He spent nineteen years with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Dr. Cumming is presently preparing a video which he made on a recent visit to the Galapagos Islands which discusses the diversity of species in relation to the traditional interpretation of speciation.
For detailed information on his accomplishments, etc., click here.
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Patricia Lynnea Gathman Nason, Ph.D. (ICR)
Curriculum and Instruction; Science and Interdisciplinary
Patti Nason is Chairman of the Department of Science Education for the Institute for Creation Research Graduate School. She has taught courses during the summer at ICR since 1999 and joined the faculty full time January, 2004. She is presently developing on-line courses so that science teachers can receive their M.S. in Science Education via Learning.
For a detailed look at his accomplishments, etc., click here.
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David Dewitt, Ph.D. Neuroscience (Adjunct Faculty for ICR)
He has a B.S. in Biochemistry from Michigan State University and a Ph.D. in Neuroscience from Case Western Reserve University, School of Medicine. His professional memberships include the Society for Neuroscience and the Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine.
For a detailed list of his accomplishments, etc., click here.
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Frank Sherwin, M.A. Zoology (Parasitology) (ICR)
He has a B.A. in Biology from Western State College in Colorado and an M.A. in Zoology from the University of Northern Colorado. Frank's specialty is parasitology. He discovered a new species of parasite, a nematode of the family Acuariidae. He published his research in the peer-reviewed Journal of Parasitology with the late Dr. G.D. Schmidt. Before coming to work for ICR, Frank taught Human Physiology & Anatomy, Medical Microbiology, Parasitology, General Biology I & II and Cell Biology for 9 years at Pensacola Christian College. He is a member of the American Society of Parasitologists and the Helminthological Society of Washington.
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Todd C. Wood, Ph.D. Biochemistry/Genomics
He has a B.S. in Biology (highest honors) from Liberty University, a Ph.D. in Biochemistry from the University of Virginia, and a Post-Doctoral Research Fellowship in Genomics from Clemson University. He served as Research Assistant Professor and Director of Bioinformatics from the year 1999 to 2000 and Adjunct Professor, Departments of Crop & Soil Sciences and Genetics from the year 2000 to 2001 at the Clemson University Genomics Institute. Dr. Wood is currently Adjunct Professor of Natural Sciences at Bryan College, Tennessee. He has published articles in secular journals like The American Journal of Human Genetics, Science, Theoretical and Applied Genetics, and Genome Research on biochemistry, genetics, and genomics. Dr. Wood is also a member of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, Society for Molecular Biology and Evolution, and the Society for Systematic Biology. He is also on the National Science Foundation adivsory committee for research project "Genomics of Polyploids," 2001-05.
For a detailed look at his accomplishments, etc., click here.
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Robert Franks, M.D. (Adjunct Faculty/Board Member)
He has a B.A. in Zoology (Magna Cum Laude) from San Diego State University, and a M.D. from UCLA. Dr. Franks has practiced medicine (general practice) for over forty years in San Diego. He currently teaches Introduction to Clinical Medicine at UCSD. He teaches Human Anatomy and Pathology here at the ICR graduate school. Dr. Franks has published research on Scalene Node Biopsy and Pulmonary Embolism.
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Robert H. Eckel, M.D. (Technical Advisory Board)
He has a B.S. in Bacteriology from the University of Cincinnati and a M.D. from the University of Cincinnati College of Medicine. Dr. Eckel has authored over 120 papers and presented over 160 abstracts at both regional and national meetings. He has received over 60 research awards and has been a reviewer for over sixty journals including the American Journal of Medicine where he currently serves on the editorial board. Dr. Eckel is also chairman of the nutritional committee of the American Heart Association. He is currently professor of Medicine at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, Denver, Colorado. He has also taught Biochemistry, Biophysics, and Genetics.
For a detailed look at his accomplishments, etc., click here.
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Gary Parker, Ed.D. Biology (Adjunct Faculty for ICR)
He has a B.A. in Biology/Chemistry(high honors) from Wabash College, Crawfordville, IN, a M.S. in Biology/Physiology, and an Ed.D. in Biology with a cognate in Paleontology from Ball State University. Dr. Parker earned several academic awards, including admission to Phi Beta Kappa (the national scholastic honorary), election to the American Society of Zoologists (for his research on tadpoles), and a fifteen-month fellowship award from the National Science Foundation. He also wrote five secular books including: The Structure and Function of the Cell, DNA: The Key to Life, Mitosis and Meiosis, Heredity, and Life's Basis: Biomolecules. Dr. Parker's masters thesis concerning amphibian endocrinology was published in Copeia and a summary of his doctoral dissertation on programmed instruction was published in the Journal of College Science Teaching. He has taught biology at Eastern Baptist College, Dordt College, Clearwater Christian College, Christian Heritage College, and ICR's Graduate School.
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Bert Thompson, Ph.D. Microbiology
He has a B.S. in Biology from Abilene Christian University and a M.S. and Ph.D. in Microbiology from Texas A&M. Dr. Thompson is a former professor in the College of Veterinary Medicine at Texas A&M, where he also served as Coordinator of the Cooperative Education Program in Biomedical Science. He is also a member of the American Society of Microbiology.
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David Menton, Ph.D. Cell Biology (Technical Advisory Board)
He has a B.A. in Biology from Mankato State University and a Ph.D. in Cell Biology from Brown University. Dr. Menton is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy at Washington U. School of Medicine. He was Associate Professor of Anatomy for over 30 years. He received the "Distinguished Service Teaching Award" in 1991, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, named "Teacher of the Year" 1979 and was elected "Professor of the Year" in 1998 by the Class of 2000. He has also been Profiled in 'American Men and Women of Science - A Biographical Directory of Today's Leaders in Physical, Biological and Related Sciences' for almost two decades.
The complete list can be found here Error | The Institute for Creation Research
And keep in mind the list said "creation scientists in biology" so I would assume they would be well within there understanding of the evolutionary theory. So why do you think they reject evolution? Are they ignorant? I really doubt they sit there and cover thier ears and say "La la la I'm not listing." Then again I dont know. Thats why I'm asking this forums' opinion. Any responce would be appreciated.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by wj, posted 01-19-2005 6:02 AM Montag has not replied
 Message 6 by Loudmouth, posted 01-19-2005 12:32 PM Montag has not replied
 Message 7 by arachnophilia, posted 01-19-2005 9:34 PM Montag has not replied
 Message 15 by joshua221, posted 01-22-2005 11:34 AM Montag has not replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 30 (178438)
01-19-2005 2:16 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

wj
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 30 (178470)
01-19-2005 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Montag
01-18-2005 6:12 PM


So what?
It's rather a short list and quickly runs out of qualifications in biologcal sciences. Exactly how many of them were not creationists before undertaking their science studies? How many converted to creationism as a result of their science education?
Here is a review by Colin Groves of a book based on a similar listing of creationist.
Whilst numbers does not guarantee the validity of a position in science, it is interesting the the overwhelming majority of scientists in the fields of biology, geology and astronomy are not 6 day creationists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Montag, posted 01-18-2005 6:12 PM Montag has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 4 of 30 (178472)
01-19-2005 6:10 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by wj
01-19-2005 6:02 AM


Re: So what?
That doesn't really answer his question though, does it?
There is no doubt that there are a small number of succesful, intelligent and productive scientists who none-the-less are creationists. How?
Personally, I think it lies in the fact that people are, at heart, irrational. I suspect it is very difficult to find even one person who does not hold at least one irrational belief; yet, the existence of such a belief does not comprimise their ability in other areas.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by pink sasquatch, posted 01-19-2005 12:22 PM Dr Jack has not replied

pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6022 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 5 of 30 (178554)
01-19-2005 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Dr Jack
01-19-2005 6:10 AM


Re: So what?
There is no doubt that there are a small number of succesful, intelligent and productive scientists who none-the-less are creationists. How?
Irrationality aside, there are many people who work in biology or biology-related fields who have never thought about evolution or creation in any depth, let alone reviewed the evidence on either side. I have met a fair number of fairly die-hard creationist biomedical researchers, many of whom where simply interested in determining the structure of proteins or identifying molecules which inhibit the growth cell cultures. Though considered "biologists", these people have a narrow molecular focus, and thus can remain quite ignorant of evolutionary theory (and its impact on their research).
Another problem I see with the list is that it identifies people as "creationist", but doesn't explain specifically what that means - do these people believe that the universe and life was created by God, but life developed via evolution? That is very different than YEC/"kinds" creationism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Dr Jack, posted 01-19-2005 6:10 AM Dr Jack has not replied

Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 30 (178559)
01-19-2005 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Montag
01-18-2005 6:12 PM


message deleted. should have read the OP more carefully.
This message has been edited by Loudmouth, 01-19-2005 12:33 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Montag, posted 01-18-2005 6:12 PM Montag has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 7 of 30 (178767)
01-19-2005 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Montag
01-18-2005 6:12 PM


Anywho, I was browsing ICR and found a list of some scientists who actually believe in creationism.
no coincidence. that's their staff list. of course they believe in creationism.
now show me a geologist who's a yec.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Montag, posted 01-18-2005 6:12 PM Montag has not replied

Montag
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 30 (179040)
01-20-2005 6:17 PM


Actually it wasnt just their staff, just check the list, though there are probably quite a few that ARE the staff, but anyway. A geologist whose an YEC? Hahahaha. I doubt I'd be so lucky to find one.

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind" Albert Einstein

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Steen, posted 01-20-2005 9:11 PM Montag has not replied
 Message 10 by TrueCreation, posted 01-21-2005 4:25 PM Montag has not replied
 Message 11 by Sylas, posted 01-21-2005 4:50 PM Montag has not replied
 Message 14 by Demosthenes Fan, posted 01-21-2005 11:17 PM Montag has not replied

Steen
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 30 (179117)
01-20-2005 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Montag
01-20-2005 6:17 PM


Or a biologist that studied evolution of species changes for that matter (other than Ken Cummings). Start looking at what their degrees are in, and you will find that most of them are making claims outside their field. And if you look at Cummings, not one of the listed publications in any way relates to evolution or creationism.
And, when trying to actually call them "scientists," note how they ignore the Scientific Method in their "discoveries which often are merely misrepresentation of other people's work, repeated even after it fails peer-review.
So to call them scientists is simply not matching reality. Just because they themselves call them scientists doesn't mean that they are. Start looking at what they actually researched and you will find a shocking lack of primary research that in any way relates to the topic. They are politicians, advocating their views, nothing else. No comprehensive scientific experience backing up their claims.
This message has been edited by Steen, 01-20-2005 21:18 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Montag, posted 01-20-2005 6:17 PM Montag has not replied

TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 30 (179396)
01-21-2005 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Montag
01-20-2005 6:17 PM


quote:
Actually it wasnt just their staff, just check the list, though there are probably quite a few that ARE the staff, but anyway. A geologist whose an YEC? Hahahaha. I doubt I'd be so lucky to find one.
--More of a geophysicist (even better!) but; Dr. John Baumgardner.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Montag, posted 01-20-2005 6:17 PM Montag has not replied

Sylas
Member (Idle past 5259 days)
Posts: 766
From: Newcastle, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2002


Message 11 of 30 (179405)
01-21-2005 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Montag
01-20-2005 6:17 PM


Montag writes:
A geologist whose an YEC? Hahahaha. I doubt I'd be so lucky to find one.
Steve Austin and Andrew Snelling; both with good mainstream PhDs in geology. Snelling certainly has mainstream professional experience in geology. I don't know as much about Austin, but I would expect he does also. By mainstream I mean outside of the creationist organizations. Both are currently employed by creationist organizations (ICR and AiG respectively).
Having a PhD or professional experience does not make your views automatically worthy of respect. The geology of both these individuals is atrocious. Second guessing how they manage to say what they do is an interesting psychological question, but should not be relevant in addressing the "arguments" themselves.
Cheers -- Sylas
This message has been edited by Sylas, 01-21-2005 16:50 AM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 12 of 30 (179471)
01-21-2005 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Sylas
01-21-2005 4:50 PM


Psychological
In the short time (very short) I spent in grad school I worked with a PhD student in plasma physics who was a evangelical Christian. I didn't get all his believes clear but what was clear was there were two separate compartments in his head.
One for the science and one for his beliefs. He really didn't let them cross over at all. It was rather interesting talking to one or the other of him.

This message is a reply to:
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Harlequin
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 30 (179479)
01-21-2005 9:44 PM


Hey an excuse to link to an explanation of Project Steve.

Demosthenes Fan
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 30 (179497)
01-21-2005 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Montag
01-20-2005 6:17 PM


Montag writes:
A geologist whose an YEC? Hahahaha. I doubt I'd be so lucky to find one.
I could have sworn I read somewhere that John Morris the president of ICR graduated from the University of Oklahoma and got a degree in geology. Being the son of Henry Morris I honestly wonder if the degree was obtained with an a priori agenda. Dunno, just a hunch.

This message is a reply to:
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joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 30 (179639)
01-22-2005 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Montag
01-18-2005 6:12 PM


quote:
So why do you think they reject evolution?
The mentality of evolution, "only the strong survive", "kill or be killed" is sort of disturbing.
Of course for humans it's turned into something different. Do good in school, become popular, get the girl, etc...
A harsh way of seeing it, don't you think?

The subtlety of nature is far beyond that of sense or of the understanding; so that the specious meditations, speculations, and theories of mankind are but a kind of insanity, only there is no one to stand by and observe it.
-Francis Bacon "Novum Organum"

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 17 by coffee_addict, posted 01-22-2005 12:31 PM joshua221 has replied
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