Poll: Does Buzsaw Deny Obvious Error?

Would you so kind as to post links to some posts of yours that are coherent and answer directly to questions that actually advanced those conversations? Would you be so kind as to point out where people have treated you so?Also, would you please look at my signature?Thanks in advance.

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People, please look at the Style Guide for EvC thread by Sylas. Pay particular attention to step 3.

I don't feel kind this minit. Maybe later.The guillotine is significant?Of course it is.

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"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Hey, Al, I agree!

Thanks much, Ifen. Good post. I'll try to post in such a manner that you will feel more comfortable to talk to me again.
Abraham Lincoln once said something like, "I don't like that fellow. Maybe I need to get to know him better."

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

This example is from thread Observations of Great Debate - ID and thermodynamics, and is a clearer presentation of how Buzz perceives infinite.Buzz claims in Message 246 to accept that infinite+1 equals infinite while rejecting its consequences: Buzz in Message 248Buzz in Message 271: Sylas is doing yeoman's work in that thread trying to convince Buzz that there are things about reality that don't follow our intuitions, and that rejecting them for such reasons is not science.I think that thread is an excellent example of Buzz rejecting what he doesn't understand, or at least what doesn't make intuitive sense to him. Unable to conjure up a mental picture that works for him of an infinite space that expands, he rejects the possibility. Rather than just saying, "Well, I guess I just don't get it," and moving on, he bogs down discussion interminably with spurious objections that have no scientific foundation in evidence and that seem to be based solely upon his intuition and assumptions.Why Buzz holds so fiercely to this opinion is hard to fathom. I assume he's objecting because he fears that to agree would contradict the Bible, but whether or not space is infinite and expanding seems to have not even the most tenuous connection to the reality of the saving grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and our God the Father.--Percy

Since you pulled these quotes out of the context of what pre-empted/originated them, you need to go back to message 238 where I responded to Ned in our discussion of infinity plus.Ned in message 238: In this case, if I understand have way right, we can expand infinite space. It is just the same infinite size it was before. However, it allows the the space between things to get bigger while that is happening.Buz in message 238: "I have no problem with space between things getting bigger. Where have I argued otherwise? What Silas failed to show, imo, is how space gets bigger between A and B galaxy with neither A and B moving away from each other."In message 248 where I told Mangy Tiger she was wrong in saying my positon was that I rejected the possibility of adding to infinity.I went on to say/imply was that the "math" used to allegedly effect expansion of space to achieve that was "silly." Admittedly, in these exchanges, my statements could have been worded better for clarity, but they were'nt contradictory as a hasty reading of message 248 might appear to some. My position in that exchange are espoused by some people who are a lot smarter and educated than I am, however, because I've done some research to know that to be the case.I am aware also that infinity can be either countable or uncountable, thanks to Peepers post in that thread. What is considered science is a relative debate, often relative to the interpretation of that being observed. That's an unfair charge, your usual modus, Percy. Rather it's an example of a number of my statements which you may not agree with, but which others as educated would agree with. The thread is an example of how buz asks questions many of your viewers/readers may have in their own minds, and were it not for the thread and the questions I raised in it, none of us who read it or participated in it, including you, Percy, would be as apprised on certain scientific matters as we/they/you are after having experienced the thread. .......as do a host of other people a lot more educated and smarter than I. Spurious? Your relative assumption. Objections? How about "questioning?" to be fair and ballanced Not at all. Buzz has,so far, been intellectually honest throughout this thead with relatively little mention of or reference to the Bible in it.

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

Schraf, thanks for being patient. I had hoped to do your post at this sitting, but time ran out. I haven't forgotten and will get to it soon, the Lord willing.

Do you see any irony in casting new interpretations upon your old posts which you then hold to tenaciously in a thread discussing whether you do that? Countability comes from set theory, a field of mathematics. If it has relevance to your position about the expansion of space then you need to show how that is so. Science provides interpretive frameworks for observations. In order for your position to qualify as science, in other words, in order for it to be worth it for other people to pay it any attention, there must be some observations that support it. The assumptions you're making are not driven by evidence but by your own personal opinions. I think the point Sylas is making to you in the other thread is that while there may be others that agree with you, they don't happen to be people who are informed on the subject, and they have as little evidence to offer as you do. We all struggle with absorbing and visualizing complex concepts. But just because something seems wrong or counterintuitive doesn't mean you can ignore the evidence and draw your own conclusions. By spurious I meant unsupported by evidence. And of course asking questions is fine. But what we're talking about in this thread is not something that is perceived by anyone as just asking questions.--PercyThis message has been edited by Percy, 01-25-2005 15:48 AM

I'm a he, not a she.

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Confused ? You will be...

I propose one of two things, with no offense intended towards MangyTiger or anyone else:1) An extension to the database that lists, if they desire, the user's gender;
2) That people realize that username, avatar, and posting style provide absolutely none of the gender cues we're used to as humans; and that there's too many of us to remember the gender/user assignments.Again, no offense meant to MangyTiger, who I'm sure simply wished to correct a misunderstanding. We may simply have to get used to nobody knowing what gender we are.

My apologies, sir. I participated in a forum which had a female tiger poster and just wasn't thinking.

I wasn't on the ropes atol. I was busy on other stuff and they got outa sight and outa mind. I had no trouble updating these with ease.....certainly not on the ropes. You know, I never use this button, but I see it can be useful. I checked a number of posters for the 1st two pages and see I'm a few above average with a couple or so higher than mine. It appears the average runs around 13 to 18 for the two pages. Yours was 14 1/2 and mine was 22. I appreciate you pointing this out and will try to improve on that. I tend to throw in a post in threads I don't have time to get involved some. I'll likely do less of that, seeing the problem. Also some posters simply have to get in the last word, so I let them and move on. Other times, I read spurious posts directed to me and move on rather than to take time for them. There are some that I definitely should have taken care of, including the two you cited. Thanks.

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

I don't know. If you see them as new interpretations, I don't think I'm gona change your mind on that. I had nothing specific in mind here, just that it has some relevance to the discussion. I really don't want to get into a discussion on that here. That's a pretty broad brush you're using for a long thread. I'm not getting into what observations were or were not provided. Sometimes observations are need and often not, depending on what's being said. Your generalized broad brush charge affords little merit, imo. How do you know they are not informed with no evidence when your they is nameless? That depends on what the alleged evidence is. What I meant by my relevance remark was that what is considered to be spurious is often relavent to the ideology of the one making the judgement.They were for the most part, things the layman might need answers to, such as things like if space can allegedly expand out in the cosmos, is it also allegedly going on also in our environs. Very likely the readers, as well as myself learned quite a bit in this thread, though you seem to imply that I messed it up.I don't expect to please you and have given up on that. You're way too biased in judgement on other than your friends, so I just do the best I know how and let the chips fall. I continually work towards better posting skills, but if you want Mr perfect poster, sorry: I'm not your person.

Like I said before, when you're debating a crowd, a number of who are convinced they can't be wrong and you're the tiny majority ID creo, you haven't a chance in hell of getting fair assessment of your positon, so if you want to debate me, don't, unless you're as ready to tolerate my style as I am willing to accept yours.

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

No worries, buz.

Hi Buzz,My goals for EvC Forum do not include having threads bog down as yours tend to do. My hope has been that describing how I see your behavior would effect some change. But it has been a long time, and reading things like this convinces me that change is unlikely: Our experience with the Boot Camp forum indicates that the likelihood of change is low. The only solution that has proved successful so far has been removal of posting privileges. With that in mind, I'd like to request that you give greater consideration to the feedback you're receiving with an eye toward making the threads you participate in more productive. If positive change is not effected soon then your posting privileges will be removed.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director