center of the earth

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You should know that while in this format you can't base your argument on the Bible, you are certainly free to discuss it.

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You should know better, especially when ned is around. Only slams and blashemy are acceptable. Bringing up God just torments the poor guy.

No I don't believe in the Christian account of creation. There are other creation stories out there that are just as valid if not more so. But thats all I'm going to say on that because its off topic and frankly my religious beliefs are none of your business. They don't have to believe in the current model, the current model exists whether or not people believe in it. The current model is based on evidence not belief. If cosmo doesn't accept the evidence for the current model thats fine, but as this (the geology and great flood forum) is a science forum if he wants to dismiss the current model he needs to provide evidence not beleifs. Yes and it'll be the Admins who judge what is meaningful, not you. if you read the thread you'll notice it is cosmo who has received the warnings not me. All the evidence points to the Earth's core being hot. No evidence has been provided to suggest otherwise. No evidence been provided to suggest that there is a diamond at the Earth's core. There is no evidence for anything that Cosmo has proposed and he has refused all requests for evidence.

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*not an actual doctor

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No I don't believe in the Christian account of creation

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scuse me, I need to recover from the shock. How could one tell?

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Yes and it'll be the Admins who judge what is meaningful, not you

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Or certainly not you! After all, who do you think you are, the admin?

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All the evidence points to the Earth's core being hot

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Certainly all the evidence you are willing to consider. I think we knew this already.

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. No evidence has been provided to suggest otherwise. No evidence been provided to suggest that there is a diamond at the Earth's core.

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Well, it seems to match density. But, cosmo, I'm sorry to desert you, but I'd have to go with gold for the liquid. Here's a little clue. Density.
OK , so keep on topic here poster. You should know ned won't put up with your shinanigans.

Bye bye troll.

Exactly how is asking for evidence off topic?It is understood that creationists don't believe every aspect of the model. However, if one wishes to argue with it then evidence and reason is necessary.Do you have any evidence?

Please provide evidence for this claim.

Well,we've posted plenty of evidence that shows that cool does not have a chance and does not bear any serious research, and you have ignored that evidence while not posting any other evidence.If the above is your reason for this thread, why are you still posting? That part of it is long over. You left out some very important evidence ... the thermodynamics of liquids. There's liquid down there. Thermodynamics requires any liquid down there to be hot. If it were cool it would be a solid.

Sorry, it doesn't fit for density at all. The density of gold at room temperature is about 19 g/cc, about 2.5 times too dense for all the data. The solid inner core would need to be even denser, and, as a result, the known mass of the Earth would come out wrong.And then we have cosmological problems in getting enough gold to make a core like that - iron and nickel are as abundant as they are for a reason - they're the ashes of supernovas. Gold is just a trace contaminant in those ashes.

simple, you are formally asked to provide evidence to support your assertion that the core of the earth is liquid gold surrounding a diamond crystal.this IS a warning. Please take it to heart.

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Dear Cosmo;I stand corrected on the topic of moderation here, the coffee house is a wide open area (anything goes), if you want to talk about the Bible there, start a thread and let me know, or my e-mail address is in my profile. I have already told you about the density problems, how a diamond core with a density of only 3.5 compared to outer core densities of about 10, would be unstable and would tend to bob upwards. Another problem is that seismic surveys of the earth don't see what you are theorizing.When sound waves, light waves and other waves past from one material to another with different densities, some of the waves are reflected and some are refracted. In denser materials waves travel at higher speeds, sound travels faster in water than it does in the air. When the waves hit the boundary layer between materials with different densities, some of the waves instead of changing speed, bounce off the boundary layer. This is why reflections exist, why the sea is the color of the sky, some of the light waves hitting the denser material are bouncing off the surface. Sound waves do the same thing, that is what causes echos, sound waves bouncing off denser surfaces. The tendency of sound waves to bounce off denser layers is used by submarines attempting to hide from active sonar detection, they will park beneath a thermal gradient because the temperature difference creates a change in the water density which will bounce some of the sonar sound waves and make the submarine harder to find. The same principle is used in using sonic surveys to detect ore bodies, an explosive charge is detonated and the refected sound waves are measured at a number of locations. The results are like a ultra sound picture of what is under ground, even small differences in density show up clearly. For that matter just think of how clear ultrasound pictures are of babies still in their mothers are, and they are picking up the slight density differences between water and flesh, and flesh and bone.Now the passage of P waves which are sub sonic sound waves, are faster in dense material and are also reflected and refracted by density boundary layers. If the earth had a diamond core surrounded by water, it would be a very low density area surrounded by the high density mantel. Which would create a very strong density boundary layer that would reflect and refract P waves very very noticeable, this is not seen at all, it doesn't exist.The second point is that the low density of Diamond and water, would result in slowing the P waves down as they passed through the core area. But that is not is what is seen, P waves actually travel faster in the core because it is denser. The book "Geophysics: The Earth's Interior" Jean-Claude De Bremecker, 1985, on page 296 under the heading "Temperatures in the Core" states, "The density of the core requires that it be mostly iron, but shock wave data require that some lighter elements be present, to reduce the density by about 10%. . . . All told, the temperature at the inner core boundary is probably between 3400 and 5700 K. Presumably, the temperature varies little in the inner core." So because of the density P wave travel speed, the density of the earth's core is known, and the temperature of the core is also known within some fairly wide parameters back in 1985. What you have been theorizing is just simply totally incompatible with the measurements that have been taken.As for your Hydroplate like theory, I will say that you sound like a young Walt Brown and your theory while still impossible is starting to sound better than his and could possibly address some of the problems his can not. But to say that a theory is better than Walt's, isn't saying much ether on the other hand. Now as you can hopefully see, the evidence overwhelmingly shows that the earth has a very dense core. You could argue about the temperature of the core, but even if it is a lot cooler than what is currently thought, it would still be too hot for what you want anyway and it doesn't matter in the end, here let me show you why.Now I know what you want to do is to escape the heat problems of the Hydroplate theory by starting with a colder deeper water source for the flood waters. The problem is that even if you had a core just above freezing like a heavy iron sponge with a few percent of water in it, the water has to reach the surface, and to do that it has to pass through the hot outer core and mantel. Coming from so deep down and passing through so much hot material, would super heat the water anyway. So in the end you still end up with the same heat problem. But you are right in that the flood waters had to come from a cool source. I believe in a recent global flood and have written a book on it that solves all of the problems of the flood. The solution was only workable from an old earth perspective however, the earth is old and trying to say all the evidence of age was created by the flood doesn't work. Here is a link to my book. https://www1.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.asp?bookid... In my book I look at the evidence for a young earth in detail and show why it doesn't work. I have a whole chapter on the canopy theory and the problems with that. As the author, I think it would be a great book for you to read, even if you don't agree with me on the age of the earth, I think you would find it very informative. Then you could turn the tables on me and tell me what is wrong with my theory, there is even a thread on this board for doing just that.Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

First of all, exploring whether there could be a cooler inner earth scenario is not something locked in to my first guesses. I had to pick something to begin a look at the concept. You could be right. I don't know why people seem to get uptight even considering such a thing. If they have a good case, fine, why worry?
[simple--as much as you seem to want to be sort of helpful (?), could you please stay off this particular thread, as you'll only give them an excuse to close it. tks]

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a diamond core with a density of only 3.5 compared to outer core densities of about 10, would be unstable and would tend to bob upwards

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OK, so would not a designed 'bob' be benefitial in getting some movement for generating power? Could not how it was 'housed' make some difference there? If I take a crystal ball full of air, and hold it under water, it can't surface, regardless of density. Once we lock something in earth's center, long as it could withstand the pressure, and earth's overall density deficit was balanced elsewhere? Could you suggest something that might fair a little better for a cooler core?

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Another problem is that seismic surveys of the earth don't see what you are theorizing.

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They see a liquid, and a solid core. Do you have information on some aspect of seismic waves that tell us precisely what density range, or something we need to look for there?

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Now the passage of P waves which are sub sonic sound waves, are faster in dense material and are also reflected and refracted by density boundary layers. If the earth had a diamond core surrounded by water, it would be a very low density area surrounded by the high density mantel. Which would create a very strong density boundary layer that would reflect and refract P waves very very noticeable, this is not seen at all, it doesn't exist

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Ok, so I think you are saying that the density of the inner and outer core must phase in well, without a 'density boundry'? Before totally accepting that, a few questions.Could superpressurized water, with a phase zone of gold, or graphite, as it got closer to the 'diamond', fool the waves, at least our reading of them? Also, would gold be liquid at that pressure, of the outer core?

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. For that matter just think of how clear ultrasound pictures are of babies still in their mothers are

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True, and I'm starting to get a clearer picture of why waves are important here. Nevertheless, I have heard of moms who had twins, or triplets, and were shocked, because they waves were not perfect, and the core id thousands of kilometers away as well, so it's good to check.

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So because of the density P wave travel speed, the density of the earth's core is known, and the temperature of the core is also known within some fairly wide parameters back in 1985

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So the waves tell us the density. I think if you dig a little deeper, on the temperature guess though, it would be based on only looking for something hot, that would match the density. Also, why do we say the density require it to be iron? Can the waves require, heat assumptions aside, the core to be dense as iron. Are you suggesting something in the waves narrows down the density aspect to the same as iron for sure? It would have to be how fast the waves pass through the core, I presume. But I have not heard someone come out and say something like this. 'Sound waves travel through the core at xxxx mph, and take xxxx minutes to do so, so, since it is 1500 (or whatever) miles long, the density of the core must be exactly, xxxxx. If you can establish it has to be a certain density, I can just look at material in the right range for cool suspects.

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I will say that you sound like a young Walt Brown and your theory while still impossible

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Flattery not deserved, but hey, I'll take it!

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and to do that it has to pass through the hot outer core and mantel.

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Ahh, this is the beaty of having the catastropic tectonic event at flood time, it gives us the heat we need up here. In any scenario where anything came up from the center of the earth at floodtime-we don't have a hot surface yet!!!!!

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The solution was only workable from an old earth perspective however ..

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Well, this is a problem. But I might have a boo, as many people interpret 'old earh' evidence in a different light.

cosmo, you are formally asked to provide evidence to support your assertion that the core of the earth is liquid gold surrounding a diamond crystal.this IS a warning. Please take it to heart.

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... the thermodynamics of liquids. There's liquid down there. Thermodynamics requires any liquid down there to be hot. If it were cool it would be a solid.

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Ok How so? Say for example, if gold was a liquid at that pressure, why would it be hot-or water?

Cause if it was cool it'd be a solid. To change something that is normally a solid into a liquid you have to raise it's temperature to its melting point. You have to keep it at or above the melting point. Therefore liquid gold is hot. It's simple thermodynamics.

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*not an actual doctor

[quote]cosmo, you are formally asked to provide evidence to support your assertion that the core of the earth is liquid gold surrounding a diamond crystal.[quote] Excuse me? My assertion is only this. I'd like to check the evidence that the interior must be hot, and that a cooler scenario could not be possible. As I have already said, I simply picked some materials, for examples, so we could look at whether or not anything else could fit the bill. I have no assertions that it is a diamond, or gold or water.But we need something material, to use to test the concept. If I get to an assertion phase, I'll let you know. We're having a look at ways we can detet what's down there, and how we do it, and how much would be because of age assumptions, and whether all cooler scenarios can be ruled out. No I don't assert any certain materials, only propose a few to see if they can stand up or not to evidence.