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Author Topic:   Genesis: is it to be taken literally?
Terry48420
Inactive Member


Message 256 of 301 (182099)
01-31-2005 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Brian
01-31-2005 1:51 PM


Re: Reply to Brian
So, this means that Peter may have been a false teacher
If you truely believe that the Apostle Peter was a false teacher, then we have no common ground from which to debate.
Here are a few notable names that take Genesis literally:
Peter believed the flood to be a factual account II Pet 2:5 and I Pet 3:20.
The Hebrew writer believed the flood account factual Heb 11:7
God in Isaiah 54:9 reafirms the flood account.
Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day... The six literal days of creation.
Jesus in Mat 19:4 and Mar 10:6 afirms the creation of man in the beginning.

Ps 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Brian, posted 01-31-2005 1:51 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by Brian, posted 01-31-2005 6:04 PM Terry48420 has replied
 Message 258 by jar, posted 01-31-2005 6:05 PM Terry48420 has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 257 of 301 (182118)
01-31-2005 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Terry48420
01-31-2005 4:07 PM


Re: Reply to Brian
If you truely believe that the Apostle Peter was a false teacher, then we have no common ground from which to debate.
I don't believe a single word that any New Testament author wrote. Is this the same Peter that denied Jesus three times?
Peter believed the flood to be a factual account II Pet 2:5 and I Pet 3:20.
But, the unknown authors of these two books do not state that it was a worldwide flood.
The Hebrew writer believed the flood account factual Heb 11:7
Another unkown writer, how do you know he took all of Genesis literally?
God in Isaiah 54:9 reafirms the flood account.
The statement was that most Christians took Genesis literally! So, God is a Christian is He?
Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day... The six literal days of creation.
The Book of Exodus wasn't written by a Christian!
Jesus in Mat 19:4 and Mar 10:6 afirms the creation of man in the beginning.
Jesus was not a Christian.
Not doing very well are you.
Are there any of the church fathers who take Genesis literally?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Terry48420, posted 01-31-2005 4:07 PM Terry48420 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Terry48420, posted 01-31-2005 6:33 PM Brian has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 258 of 301 (182119)
01-31-2005 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Terry48420
01-31-2005 4:07 PM


Re: Reply to Brian
Actually, Jesus taught using parables. Is there any indication that Jesus thought the Flood anymore real than he thought the tale of the two houses or the good servant real?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Terry48420, posted 01-31-2005 4:07 PM Terry48420 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Terry48420, posted 01-31-2005 6:47 PM jar has replied

Mike_King
Inactive Member


Message 259 of 301 (182121)
01-31-2005 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Terry48420
01-31-2005 12:03 PM


Meaning of Genesis 1
Hi Terry,
I have not had time to go through all the detail, but I have heard it said; to quote "The six days of creation represent a great systematic presentation of God's work which becomes the foundational pattern for human work and activity. In turn, the human understanding of the 'week'has become the framework for telling the creation story and its climax;the Sabbath.. The cosmic story moves towards a twin crested peak; humanity and Sabbath. People are the crown of creation, but the Sabbath with its rest and communion with God crowns its purpose'
In other words, its literacy for the truth that God created the world, but not neccessarily literal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Terry48420, posted 01-31-2005 12:03 PM Terry48420 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by Terry48420, posted 01-31-2005 6:55 PM Mike_King has not replied

Terry48420
Inactive Member


Message 260 of 301 (182125)
01-31-2005 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Brian
01-31-2005 6:04 PM


Re: Reply to Brian
I don't believe a single word that any New Testament author wrote. Is this the same Peter that denied Jesus three times?
Sorry to hear that you don't believe at all and since you don't there is no real reason you would believe a church father either. After all this Peter is reguarded as the first pope by many. Certainly one of Jesus' inner circle of the 12 Apostles.

Ps 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Brian, posted 01-31-2005 6:04 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by Brian, posted 02-01-2005 6:07 AM Terry48420 has not replied

Terry48420
Inactive Member


Message 261 of 301 (182127)
01-31-2005 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by jar
01-31-2005 6:05 PM


Reply to jar
The parables of Jesus are just stories to relate a spiritual truth, but there is no indication that that is what the creation or the flood is. Jesus took those literally.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by jar, posted 01-31-2005 6:05 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by jar, posted 01-31-2005 7:21 PM Terry48420 has replied

Terry48420
Inactive Member


Message 262 of 301 (182129)
01-31-2005 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Mike_King
01-31-2005 6:13 PM


Re: Meaning of Genesis 1
I'm not sure who you are quoting in Message 259, but that certainly is partially true. God's creation week is where we get the work week with a sabbath day to rest in Jewish times. I still believe the details of the creation to be literally true.

Ps 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Mike_King, posted 01-31-2005 6:13 PM Mike_King has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 263 of 301 (182131)
01-31-2005 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Terry48420
01-31-2005 6:47 PM


Re: Reply to jar
How can you say that when there are so many conflicting accounts in the flood stories? What makes you think Jesus took them as more than parables? How are the conflicting flood tales different than the two mutually exclusive creation tales in Genesis?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Terry48420, posted 01-31-2005 6:47 PM Terry48420 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Terry48420, posted 01-31-2005 7:33 PM jar has replied

Terry48420
Inactive Member


Message 264 of 301 (182133)
01-31-2005 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by jar
01-31-2005 7:21 PM


Re: Reply to jar
How can you say that when there are so many conflicting accounts in the flood stories?
I guess I don't see the conflicts you are talking about. Could you be more specific?

Ps 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by jar, posted 01-31-2005 7:21 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by jar, posted 01-31-2005 7:43 PM Terry48420 has not replied
 Message 266 by jar, posted 01-31-2005 8:21 PM Terry48420 has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 265 of 301 (182136)
01-31-2005 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by Terry48420
01-31-2005 7:33 PM


Re: Reply to jar
Sure. There are differing accounts of what was taken on board, two differing accounts of what was done towards the end of the voyage and what critters were sent out. It's pretty obvious that at least two different traditions and myths were combined into one anthology.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Terry48420, posted 01-31-2005 7:33 PM Terry48420 has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 266 of 301 (182141)
01-31-2005 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by Terry48420
01-31-2005 7:33 PM


Re: Reply to jar
Terry, let me ask you a question. Since we are both Christians and speaking from a basis of long term Christian educations, what do you consider more reliable, records directly from GOD or those written by man?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Terry48420, posted 01-31-2005 7:33 PM Terry48420 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Terry48420, posted 01-31-2005 9:11 PM jar has replied

Terry48420
Inactive Member


Message 267 of 301 (182156)
01-31-2005 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by jar
01-31-2005 8:21 PM


Re: Reply to jar
what do you consider more reliable, records directly from GOD or those written by man?
Those from God of course...All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. II Tim 3:16,17
The entire Bible is given by God. What man writes is only comentary on the Bible and should be taken with a grain of salt.

Ps 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by jar, posted 01-31-2005 8:21 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by jar, posted 01-31-2005 9:17 PM Terry48420 has replied
 Message 270 by crashfrog, posted 01-31-2005 9:36 PM Terry48420 has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 268 of 301 (182159)
01-31-2005 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by Terry48420
01-31-2005 9:11 PM


Re: Reply to jar
Did GOD create the world and universe around us?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Terry48420, posted 01-31-2005 9:11 PM Terry48420 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Terry48420, posted 01-31-2005 9:35 PM jar has replied

Terry48420
Inactive Member


Message 269 of 301 (182165)
01-31-2005 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by jar
01-31-2005 9:17 PM


Re: Reply to jar
Yes, God did create the universe and everything in it and you can come to a knowledge that there is a God by observing the world around us (general revelation). However, you need the Bible (specific revelation) to really know God and what he expects of you.
I assume that by your previous message that you think the Bible to be written by men all on there own, but that is not the case. The Bible is inspired (God dictated). It is not simply men compiling verbal myths.

Ps 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by jar, posted 01-31-2005 9:17 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by jar, posted 02-01-2005 11:24 AM Terry48420 has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 270 of 301 (182166)
01-31-2005 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by Terry48420
01-31-2005 9:11 PM


Re: Reply to jar
Those from God of course...All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. II Tim 3:16,17
How can a book substantiate its own divinity?
I'd like to hear it from God, please. Anyone can write a book and say "God wrote this." Oh, wait, many already have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Terry48420, posted 01-31-2005 9:11 PM Terry48420 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Terry48420, posted 02-01-2005 8:03 AM crashfrog has replied

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