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Author Topic:   Genesis: is it to be taken literally?
Brian
Member (Idle past 4978 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 285 of 301 (182369)
02-01-2005 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Coragyps
02-01-2005 2:11 PM


Re: Reply to crashfrog
I think the guy is beyond help
He seems unaware that not a single character or event in Genesis has ever been identified in any external source.
He is probably a young guy new to bible studies, he will learn in time with any luck.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Coragyps, posted 02-01-2005 2:11 PM Coragyps has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4978 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 287 of 301 (182371)
02-01-2005 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Terry48420
02-01-2005 3:33 PM


Re: crashfrog
Archeology has proven many of the historical facts and has never proved it wrong.
Archaeology never 'proves' anything, that is a basic principle of the discipline. However, it is good at disproving.
But, since this is about Genesis, can you provide ANY archaeological evidence for ANY Genesis character or event?
Cheers.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Terry48420, posted 02-01-2005 3:33 PM Terry48420 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by Terry48420, posted 02-01-2005 3:48 PM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4978 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 290 of 301 (182377)
02-01-2005 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Terry48420
02-01-2005 3:48 PM


Re: Reply to brian
I was mainly talking about latter books, but I did see a program on the Discovery Channel that found the remains of Joseph's house in Egypt.
So, we can say that archaeology hasn't proven anything in Genesis, that's fine we have a start at least.
Didn't see that one. Although Bryant Wood wrote an article about some house at Avaris, using Beitak's research, that MAY be Josephs house. But archaeology does not provide absolutes like this, it only SUGGESTS. But for me to take this seriously I would need a bit more info.
By the way, the entire Joseph tale fits a period of Egyptian history much later than the time proposed by the bibical texts.
For example, if you look at some of the names in the Joseph narratives they do not belong to the bible time frame for Joseph.
For a start, Joseph apparently talks to a pharaoh around 1850 BCE, but 'pharaoh' as a title did not exist until the time of Thutmosis III (1490), who is the first pharaoh to be called 'pharaoh'. (McCarter, P. K. The Patriarchal Age in Shanks (Ed) Ancient Israel: A Short History from Abraham to the Roman Destruction of the Temple, Prentice Hall: Biblical Archaeological Society, Englewood Cliffs; Washington DC. p 27)
Also, although some of the personal names in the story are Egyptian, they belong to a later date. Joseph’s wife is called Asenath (Genesis 41:45), a name with parallels beginning in the middle of the 20th Dynasty (about 1184-1070 BCE). The name of Asenath’s father is Potiphera (Genesis 41:45), and this name has been found on an Egyptian stele dating to the 21st Dynasty (about 1070-945) or later. The name of Joseph’s Egyptian master Potiphar (Genesis 37:36) is probably a shorter version of the name Potiphera. Joseph’s own Egyptian name, Zaphenath-paneah (Genesis 41:45) has no exact parallel in extant Egyptian records, but names with a similar structure are attested to from the 21st Dynasty (about 1070-945 BCE) and later. (McCarter, 27)
The people in Genesis were mostly nomadic and would not leave much of a trace after 4000 years.
The Egyptians are mentioned in Genesis, there is a pharaoh as well, they did leave traces.
There is a significant event that we may expect to have left some record in the non-biblical sources, the war described in Gen.14 between the allied forces of the five Cities of the Plain and the four king alliance led by king Chedorlaomer. A fairly surprising feature of this war is that no one has actually been able to identify any of the nine kings in any extant external source.
I was mainly talking about latter books.
Well, let's open it up to include every character and event in all the books from Genesis to Judges. That is a huge scope for you. What direct evidence do you have for any character or event in any of these books?
Cheers.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Terry48420, posted 02-01-2005 3:48 PM Terry48420 has not replied

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