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Author Topic:   "True science" must include God?
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1 of 47 (184062)
02-09-2005 7:57 AM


In Message 307 Simple wrote:
Once you cite ommision of God you contradict the claim that science is true science.
Now, others have made such claims in many venues, and they've been asked to explain how science that admits God as an explanation might work. Every one has either ducked the question or failed to come up with a workable methodology. Nobody's answered the core question: "How would that work?"
"God did it" can explain anything and therefore explains nothing. As a concrete example, take cold fusion. Fleischman and Pons announced that they had fused hydrogen at room temperature. Their work was not replicated and their careers were ruined (not because they made a mistake but because of the way they handled it). (There are a few "true cold fusion believers" left).
Now, why couldn't they just have said "It used to work but God changed the rules and now it doesn't work any more"?
If God can change the rules arbitrarily at any time, there is no such thing as prediction or continuity or replication ... or science at all.
OF course, we cannot predict what God will or will not do or tell Him what to do; he's the boss and we're not. So "He just wouldn't do that sort of thing" is not an acceptable answer. We've all been told that we can't know the Mind of God, right?
OK, simple, lay out the methodology of science in which "God did it for reasons we don't now" is an acceptable explanation for anything.
This message has been edited by JonF, 02-09-2005 07:52 AM

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Quetzal, posted 02-09-2005 8:53 AM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 3 of 47 (184098)
02-09-2005 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Quetzal
02-09-2005 8:53 AM


I'm not expecting simple to even attempt to defend the claim; he/she obviously hasn't given the matter the required thought (and is probably incapable of it). But it's a reminder that bluffing doesn't work here.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by CK, posted 02-09-2005 1:18 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 6 of 47 (184197)
02-09-2005 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by CK
02-09-2005 1:18 PM


Re: Cosmo/Simple
I been wondering who's who, too ...

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 Message 4 by CK, posted 02-09-2005 1:18 PM CK has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 9 of 47 (212323)
05-29-2005 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by randman
05-29-2005 2:14 AM


Also, wasn't there a device for "cold fusion" on the market and in the news recently? It is not considered energy efficient, but it was a portable fusion device.
Not really. There was a modification to a pre-existing device (in which hot fusion took place) which allowed miniaturizing it by replacing a bulky electric field generator with a pyroelectric crystal. The device does produce neutrons by hot fusion, so it is a portable fusion device, but it is not cold fusion and it is not a self-sustaining reaction; it just produces neutrons which can be used for various purposes. In fact, the inventor of the device was one of the original debunkers of cold fusion. Crystal creates table-top fusion, Physicists look to crystal device for future of fusion. Cold fusion and bubble fusion were and are bunk.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by randman, posted 05-29-2005 2:14 AM randman has not replied

  
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