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Author Topic:   Science rejects Abiogenesis
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 12 of 40 (18545)
09-29-2002 7:20 PM


Abiogenesis theory is certainly based on a lot of ifs and maybes of what was the early earth's environment.
It is a study of what might have happened, but I can't see abiogenesis ever being "proven beyond a reasonable doubt", as evolution has (of course an opinion that many creationists don't agree with).
To put it differently:
We have the "fact" of evolution - The theory of evolution is the best effort to explain the mechanisms.
We do NOT have the "fact" of abiogenesis - But it is one of the possible starting points, from which evolution happened. The theory of abiogenesis is the best effort to explain the mechanisms of a possible "non-fact".
So once again it is stated: "Even if the current state of abiogenesis theory is falsified, the fact of evolution remains the same".
No claims what-so-ever, of being a biologist, biochemist, or biowhateverist,
Moose
ps: Source references are a good thing, as best you can.
[This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 09-29-2002]

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by acmhttu001_2006, posted 09-30-2002 2:34 AM Minnemooseus has replied
 Message 21 by Bart007, posted 09-30-2002 9:57 PM Minnemooseus has replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 20 of 40 (18650)
09-30-2002 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by acmhttu001_2006
09-30-2002 2:34 AM


quote:
Is there any evidence that different laws might have been in effect in these time periods we are talking that would allow for spontaneous combustion.
Spontaneous cumbustion? Why do I get the feeling that you've been hanging out with the string section, snorting the bow rosin?
quote:
Obviously the laws had to be different?
That was back before the anti-smoking laws came into effect, but I suspect it was still frowned on to burst into flame on a whim.
quote:
I need this for research, some creationists were quoting that the physical laws were always the same.
On a serious note, it's the creationist side that is sometimes being found trying to bend the laws of physics. All in all, I think we need a more specific querry.
quote:
What is your intake
You offering to buy me a beer?
quote:
and to the others any help from either side would be great.
Or has she been pocessed by the spirit of Brad.
Moose, operating in the wise-ass mode
------
Note by edit: Anne has edited the message this is a reply to, such that it now makes greater sense (See her note below). I rather wish I had preserved the original. Maybe it's hiding somewhere in my disc cache - Moose
------
Found it!
quote:
minnemooseus,
Is there any evidence that different laws might have been in effect in these time periods we are talking that would allow for spontaneous combustion. Obviously the laws had to be different?
I need this for research, some creationists were quoting that the physical laws were always the same.
What is your intake, and to the others any help from either side would be great.
Waiting for your reply.
Besides good post.
------------------
Anne C. McGuire
Cell and Molecular, Mathematics, Piano and Vocal Performance Majors
Chemistry and Physics minors
Thanks and have a nice day
[This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 10-01-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by acmhttu001_2006, posted 09-30-2002 2:34 AM acmhttu001_2006 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by acmhttu001_2006, posted 10-01-2002 2:12 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 23 of 40 (18657)
09-30-2002 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Bart007
09-30-2002 9:57 PM


Re: The "fact" of evolution.
I used this sites search utility to find my previous postings of
5 , , which is Steevie Gould's essay on the matter.
My more significant posting on the matter can be found at:
http://EvC Forum: Using the Bible as fact... -->EvC Forum: Using the Bible as fact...
A lesser posting can be found at:
http://EvC Forum: Every evolutionist has a chance to win $250,000 -->EvC Forum: Every evolutionist has a chance to win $250,000
At both those topics, the subject seems to be rather off topic.
Maybe the short, dead topic "Fossils..." at
EvC Forum: Fossils...
might be a good place for the "fact" of evolution debate to continue.
Moose
[This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 09-30-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Bart007, posted 09-30-2002 9:57 PM Bart007 has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 26 of 40 (18673)
10-01-2002 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Bart007
09-30-2002 9:57 PM


I have previously commented on the "fact" of evolution part, but I thought I should say something on the abiogenesis part.
Essentially, I view abiougenesis research as being a trite, esoteric pursuit. I really don't care how life on earth started. The fact is, somehow it started. At least the research doesn't cost hoards of money to do, unlike the (IMO) dubious space station project, or the now shot down supercollider project down in Texas.
The essence of the intent of my posting, is that there is no evidence of abiogenesis having happened. I don't expect that any such evidence will ever be found. I can't even visualize what the evidence could be, other than it would be very small, and buried in multi-billion year old rocks. Relative to that situation, finding a specific needle somewhere on the earth's surface would be easy.
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Bart007, posted 09-30-2002 9:57 PM Bart007 has not replied

  
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