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Author | Topic: NOMA - Is this the answer? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Quetzal Member (Idle past 5900 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
No disagreement with you Moose. It's probably a continuum, anyway.
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acmhttu001_2006 Inactive Member |
Like Moose's statement.
Sorry about not replying, I will reply to the other messages tomorrow. Just have been so busy. Hope everyone has had a great weekend. See you later. ------------------Anne C. McGuire Cell and Molecular, Mathematics, Piano and Vocal Performance Majors Chemistry and Physics minors Thanks and have a nice day
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
[QUOTE][B]That is true, not sure if God exists or does not exist.[/QUOTE]
[/B] In that case, how can you call yourself a strong atheist? The following quote is from Moose in this thread and it sums up the classifications pretty well, at least in the same way as I see them:
[QUOTE][B]I largly agree with your reasonings for this self appraisal, except, to me, a "fairly high confidence" would be more of a "medium atheist". The requirements for being a "strong atheist" would be an honest "absolute confidence" that there is no god. I don't believe that one with a rational mind can have such absolute confidence in dealing with such a nebulous concept as God's existance.[/QUOTE] [/B] I almost agree completely with his final sentence except I believe that a rational mind *could* have absolute confidence in the existance of a God or gods if that mind had a witness or beheld a manifestation (IE, if a god is real and proved its existance) However neither luxury is possible for an atheist, therefore I agree to the extent that no rational mind can take up strong atheism.
[QUOTE][B]That is true, not sure if God exists or does not exist. But if he did, I would hate to be in your shoes when you get to "heaven" and he asks why you did not do a better job in convicing the rest of us.[/QUOTE] [/B] Fortunately, I am not held accountible for your decisions. If we were held accountible for everyone, nobody would go. [This message has been edited by gene90, 10-05-2002]
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nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by gene90:
I almost agree completely with his final sentence except I believe that a rational mind *could* have absolute confidence in the existance of a God or gods if that mind had a witness or beheld a manifestation (IE, if a god is real and proved its existance) And what would constitute credible, verifible, or unbiased prove of this and still be considered rational? However neither luxury is possible for an atheist, therefore I agree to the extent that no rational mind can take up strong atheism. Unlike you they can go by empirical evidence. All you can claim is your so-called "spirit witness". I know which one I would concider to be more rational. Fortunately, I am not held accountible for your decisions. If we were held accountible for everyone, nobody would go. Accountability is irrelevant since everyone gets into heaven if your god's love has any real meaning or no one does.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
[QUOTE][B]I would venture that any religion that had irrefutable evidence (or at least evidence too concrete to ignore) of the existence of their particular deity would rapidly become dominant.
[/QUOTE]
[/B] That may or may not be true. I suspect that may be the case but I'm hesitant to announce agreement. Not when there are websites like http://www.fixedearth.com .
[QUOTE][B]I don't say I "know" there is no god. OTOH, I do say that the complete absence of confirming evidence and lack of any compelling logic (i.e., no phenomena examined to date have given any reason to drag in extra complications like deities), gives me fairly high confidence to state: "There is no god".[/QUOTE] [/B] I agree. I don't think people should have to believe in any deities just because they need them to make the numbers fit because the violates the concept of free will. There is also a very, very bad historical precedent.
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nos482 Inactive Member |
quote: Free will is not as free as we would like to make ourselves believe it is. We are still ruled by many of our instincts. As I've stated before EVERYTHING we do is to prove our fitness to reproduce to the opposite sex. Sex is everything. To deny this is to deny one's humanity as well. Put in UBB endquote code - Adminnemooseus [This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 10-05-2002]
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
[QUOTE][B]We are still ruled by many of our instincts. As I've stated before EVERYTHING we do is to prove our fitness to reproduce to the opposite sex. Sex is everything. To deny this is to deny one's humanity as well.[/QUOTE]
[/B] That's not necessarily true. Vows of celibacy and even instances of self-castration show this is not the case. Also, it seems to me that the notion of not being able to keep one's pants on being the definition of humanity is a less-than-noble outlook on the world. Surely you could think up something more pc? [This message has been edited by gene90, 10-05-2002]
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
--Took some of those words right out of my mouth, I had second thoughts about whether I should respond to another nos post an hour ago. I was going to gargle something up somewhere along the line of artificial vs. natural selection. Didn't exactly look forward to what other flames would result from clicking the 'Submit Now' button.
------------------ [This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 10-05-2002]
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nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by gene90:
That's not necessarily true. Vows of celibacy and even instances of self-castration show this is not the case. People also comit suicide as well. Self-hatred can be a strong emotion as well. They do the population a favor by taking themselves out of the gene pool. Though, I don't know how much about these vows of celibacy actually work considering recent events which have come to light. The Church can't hide too much nowadays and get away with it like to use to. I've heard of children who would tell on their priest and the child would be the one who got in trouble and punished. Also, it seems to me that the notion of not being able to keep one's pants on being the definition of humanity is a less-than-noble outlook on the world. Surely you could think up something more pc? Like it or not that is what makes us what we are. Political correctness is for fools, IMO. The motivation for all we do is basically just to impress the opposite sex.
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nos482 Inactive Member |
quote: Self-deception is a powerful instinct as well.
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
"They do the population a favor by taking themselves out of the gene pool."
--Unless you can supply us with data which suggests suicidal affliction is a genetic disorder, this is nonsense. And even still. There are many with qualities which greatly outweigh others in brilliance who may also have a retardation in other characteristical properties. Albert Einstein is a prime example of this. "Like it or not that is what makes us what we are. Political correctness is for fools, IMO. The motivation for all we do is basically just to impress the opposite sex."--Reality is no longer all about the survival of the fittest population, humanity has an abstract mind and with it comes other interests. There is much that I do, for instance, which is attemptedly for the better of humanity itself, and they aren't really 'get the gurl' obligations. ------------------ [This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 10-05-2002]
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nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
--Unless you can supply us with data which suggests suicidal affliction is a genetic disorder, this is nonsense. I didn't say that, but yes it can be genetic. http://www.suicide-parasuicide.rumos.com/...SSIVE%20DISORDER? And even still. There are many with qualities which greatly outweigh others in brilliance who may also have a retardation in other characteristical properties. Albert Einstein is a prime example of this. He didn't ty to kill, or castrate, himself. --Reality is no longer all about the survival of the fittest population, humanity has an abstract mind and with it comes other interests. Irrelevant. There is much that I do, for instance, which is attemptedly for the better of humanity itself, and they aren't really 'get the gurl' obligations. Women like a man who can show that he cares about others. It proves that he will more likely take better care of her children.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
[QUOTE][B]They do the population a favor by taking themselves out of the gene pool.[/QUOTE]
[/B] I take serious issue with the above. I think it qualifies as one of the more disturbing comments I've seen around here. I suggest you choose your words *much* more carefully in the future.
[QUOTE][B]People also comit suicide as well.[/QUOTE] [/B] And when people do it for religious reasons it shows that people aren't like animals hard-wired for survival. Even the most basic instincts can be overridden, including the sexdrive, and as you just pointed out, even self-preservation, the most important drive of all. [This message has been edited by gene90, 10-07-2002]
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nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by gene90:
You have a history of saying disgusting and degenerate things in this forum but this takes the cake. What was going through your mind when you said that? The truth is not always pretty. And when people do it for religious reasons it shows that people aren't like animals hard-wired for survival. Like bees, ants, and lemmings just to name a few? Even the most basic instincts can be overridden, including the sexdrive, and as you just pointed out, even self-preservation, the most important drive of all. I didn't say that we couldn't overcome them, only that we are ruled more by them than we like to believe. Even if we don't act on them directly they still influence us. We may not go out and tried to have sex with every person we see still doesn't mean that we aren't trying to prove our fitness to reproduce either even if it is on a subconscious level. That is how instinct works. [This message has been edited by nos482, 10-07-2002]
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
[QUOTE][B]The truth is not always pretty.[/QUOTE]
[/B] Just because it isn't pretty doesn't make it true. Really now, we don't need genes carried by suicidal people? They are inferior by virtue of the way they died? Worse, you believe that the world is better *without* them? The arrogance in that remark, and the extremedisregard for a substantial segment of humanity, is astounding. [QUOTE][B]Like bees, ants, and lemmings just to name a few?[/QUOTE] [/B] Bees and ants are hive insects, all descended from one individual. By sacrificing themselves to defend the nest they are helping perpetuate their own genes. This is just pure Darwinism. The whole lemming mass suicide thing is a crop of bull. Did Disney Fake Lemming Suicide for 'White Wilderness'?
[QUOTE][B]I didn't say that we couldn't overcome them, only that we are ruled more by them than we like to believe.[/QUOTE] [/B] It seems like you've moved back a bit from your assertion that everything people do is for sex.
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