Who can be saved? A Christian perspective

....with Jar and frankly and more than a little pleased that there's another Christian out there who thinks in a similar way.The central tenet of Christianity is Christ's teaching of love. We know this from Christ's unequivocal pronouncements in Matthew 22: 36-40 and from the illustrative example of His life and death.Love isn't an exclusively Christian ideal either, it is idealised and seen as a laudable goal in many theisms & philosophies and its benefits preached about before and after the coming of Christ and independantly of Him.To Christ what mattered was that selfless love be practiced by people - not just by 'Christians'.
Christ says in Matthew and elsewhere that:
None can come to the Father but through me.
I firmly believe that by this He was referring to the adoption of His teaching of selfless love, not that people had to worship Him.
After all Christ also says that to love one's fellow man is to love Him and the Father.Anywho folks, that's just my little two cents worth.Cheers

Wmscott: 2 Timothy 3:16 " All Scripture is inspired of God" The Bible was written by men under the power of the holy spirit, they wrote what God wanted them to write.So you're saying that God wanted people to write in Deuteronomy & Leviticus that it was ok to stone rape victims (from the city mind you), and stone disobedient children?
You're saying that the being who said:
Suffer the little children to come unto me, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven
is the same being who is supposed to have slaughtered countless innocents in a global flood and at Som & Gommorrah etc.?I'm afraid I don't agree.I'll stick to what Christ himself said in Matthew 22: 37-40:Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.Clearly, love is of paramount importance and all other scripture must be subordinate to and interpreted through these commandments.Cheers

Jar: And it really is that simple.That's the problem isn't it?I sometimes think that it's too simple and not 'exclusive' enough for many folks.Sad indictment on the nature of humanity eh?

Dear WmScott,Wmscott: Yes, he did, the law code was from God. Jesus himself stated that the law was the word of God. Actually, in Matthew 22:36-40, Christ states that all the law and all the prophets teachings derived from His teaching of Love.Explain please, how such laws as discussed here are in accordance with a teaching of love?Wmscott: (your rape 'victim' was not a victim, but a willing participantBecause she was raped in the city?So by this we are to conclude that all rape victims in the greater metropolitan areas of New York & Sydney should then be stoned since they were willing participants by your understanding of scripture?Wmscott: and the disobedient child was not a young child, but someone old enough to be a drunkard.)Old enough?
So a 13 year old could be stoned? Maybe a 12 year old?
Should we just stone all drunkards?Wmscott: No innocents died in the flood or in Sodom and Gomorrah. (2 Peter 2:5-6) "he did not hold back from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a deluge upon a world of ungodly people; and by reducing the cities Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them, setting a pattern for ungodly persons of things to come;" Only the 'ungodly' died in both of these executions of divine justice.Perhaps you could explain then how a baby, toddler or young child might be ‘ungodly’ or not innocent?Wmscott: but if you love your child, do you still discipline him?Discipline is a word that covers a multitude of sins.
How much punishment would you say is fair for a disobedient child?Suffice it to say that I would not stone, incinerate or in any way greviously harm, mutilate or slay my own offspring — or indeed any child.But maybe you could show me where Christ is depicted as doing the same to children?Wmscott: Of course you do. God's justice is balanced by his love, but the reverse is equally true. It is loving and righteous on God's part to destroy the wicked, in order to preserve the righteous.Ah yes, spare the rod and spoil the child?
It is interesting, is it not, that this antiquated justification for physical abuse of children is no longer tolerated today.Wmscott: It is only possible for the meek to inherit the earth and live in peace, after the wicked have been destroyed.And you believe that the Bible sanctions humans to ‘chastise’ the wicked?Wmscott: People seem to have this all pink and fuzzy lovely dovey view of God and Jesus, that they are incapable of harming anyone, even the wicked. Which is not what God's word tells us, as the above verse shows, people forget that God has four main qualities, one is love, then wisdom, justice and power. So while God is love, that is not all he is.The picture you paint of Christ is your own and not supported by the words and deeds of Christ Himself.You seem to think that a Christ of Love is somehow effete and impotent? How interesting.I contend that His courage and His maintenance of peace & love in the face of torture and death was what made His teachings one of the most powerful in human history.Cheers and God bless

Hi Brian,Anybody, an Atheist included, can still love God.How? Simply by loving his/her fellow man.John 14: 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.You don't have to believe in His deity or what not - the simple exercise of selfless love is enough.It is both a simple philosophy to understand, and yet an extremely difficult one to fulfill.But I believe it is the effort we make in attempting it that makes a difference.

.....on how you look at it.Brian: To me this suggests that Christ's death was meaningless.
I mean if the gift of eternal life with God is acheivable by just lovng other as you love yourself, then Jesus didn't need to die? His death was pointless if there is another way to get into heaven.What better example of selfless love than by the the giving of one's life?Christ did not recant His teachings on the threat & reality of torture and death - he endured the self-doubt, agony and mortal death.John 13: 15 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his brothersWould Christ's message have been as dramatic and absorbing or emphasised without this ultimate sacrifice?I believe not.Cheers

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Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
--Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not his own facts.
--Daniel Patrick Moynihan (1927-2003)

I understand your comments Brian. Given what some self-styled 'Christians' maintain I couldn't blame you one iota.Can I just say that it doesn't matter?If you apply selfless love in your life then you're living Christ's teachings - His and countless others before & after Him.That's gotta be a good thing.

Hey Jar, I liked what you said:GOD speaks in the idiom and context of the day and the audienceYou've put into a succinct sentence an idea I've been trying to get across to creationists for a very long time.Cheers