how are some men in the bible called perfect? good old job --------------------------------------------------------------------- Quite correct. A few people are called perfect in the word. But perfect does not always refer to sinless. As far as I'm concerned it only speaks of God as perfect in any absolutes. Christians are made perfect in Christ. A man humble before God is also said to be perfect or rightous. (get where I'm going). *********************************************************************
don't think death is a punishment --------------------------------------------------------------------- If you are a Christian Death is no punishment, although we have to complete our task at hand and when its done, we will be called home. If you Don't belive in hell and think of Death as a cutoff switch, then it would be and easey way to cop-out of any problems. But hell does exist and therfor it is a punnishment to any one not found in Christ. Sorry.
quote:In the Flood story, God changes his plan because his plan has failed. He has learned something (good for him) and from now on he'll do things differently (he says). How about you comment on this?
Perhaps God used this period in history as a lesson to those who would follow. He does love and care for us and knowing how evil all flesh [apparently even the animals were infected by sin] would become, He demonstrated that there is an end even to His patience, and demonstrated His power. At the same time He demonstrates His love by sparing Noah and sons to perpetuate the race.
I agree that the Nineveh story isn't about God changing His mind, He knew that they would repent [for a time at least]. I believe much of the language God uses is for our benefit. Instructive and illustrative to make a point.
quote:Less than 90% of what the Apostles called "Bible" is still considered "holy" by the Christian community. The rest has been purged from your Bible (highy likely if you are Protestant). That culling was done by men. One might call them Holy Men. One might say their edit was 'inspired.' But no one can demonstrate that God or any of the Apostles approved their hatchet job.
What writings are you referring to? I'm aware of the apocrypha [why doesn't this site have spell check?] but I'm not sure that's what you're referring to.
quote:quite. but think about it for a second. if the story is about permament guilt and original sin for all my kind, how are some men in the bible called perfect? good old job -- the story hinges on the fact that he hasn't sinned, and is perfect in every way.
Well, my version says that Job was blameless, not that he never sinned or was perfect. It even mentions that he was making extra sacrifices for his children in case they had sinned without realizing it. At one point in the narrative he asks God how many sins he has that he's not aware of.
quote:why? i'll put in standard christian terms. when we die, we go to god, right? and now we're separated from god. if you truly believe... well, why isn't christianity a suicide cult? they completely invalidate this life, saying it's all preparation, a test to get into the next.
I look at it as if I'm supposed to live my life for God, doing what Jesus commanded. And this life is sweet indeed. Everybody wants to go to heaven, nobody wants to die.
Sure I've read some of the Bible. And that seems to be a recurring theme, about avoiding separation from God.
Lost my head there and forgot that you view the Bible as mythology. I see it as God's revelation to us, kind of a handbook or operating manual for life and sometimes wonder why people are so opposed to it. Sure, people misuse and attempt to corrupt the message, but people do the same thing with heroin.
Since when does theology consider the consciousness, morality, or eternal salvation of animals?
I don't know that the animals sinned, sin had an effect on all creation, and the verse says all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. It doesn't talk about consciousness, morality, or salvation of animals.
What value do books like Susanna have? What message of spiritual import is imparted?
You said you can find 6. Please find 2 that actually talk about the seed of a "woman", that also refers to virgin birth (Mary and JC i.e. gosples excluded
quote:You said you can find 6. Please find 2 that actually talk about the seed of a "woman", that also refers to virgin birth (Mary and JC i.e. gosples excluded
quote:Lev 15:18 The woman also with whom man shall lie [with] seed of copulation, they shall [both] bathe [themselves] in water, and be unclean until the even.
quote:Rth 4:12 And let thy house be like the house of Pharez, whom Tamar bare unto Judah, of the seed which the LORD shall give thee of this young woman.
used in plural:
quote:Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
now, debate those if you want, but this one clearly uses the same phrase:
quote:1Sa 2:20 And Eli blessed Elkanah and his wife, and said, The LORD give thee seed of this woman for the loan which is lent to the LORD. And they went unto their own home.
clearly seed is a euphemism for child. particularly the kind made with SEMEN:
quote:Gen 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled [it] on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
was jesus made with semen? you tell me.
Whatever your smoking, I want two! what does Mac have to do with it?
tell me. was macbeth prophetic of me killing my boss, or did i just get the idea from reading it?
Did you actually READ Gen or are you working on hearsay? Before the fall they walke with God, talked with Him as friends, being Naked infront of Him (intemacy if you will) did not even botter them. After the fall, all that's gone.
did YOU read genesis?
so no one walked with god after the fall?
quote:Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him.
no one talked with god on a regular basis? i bet i can find more verses that start "and god said" directed at moses than adam. the clothing bit has to do with awareness: they weren't concerned with nudity before, because they were just like the animals.
Let me colour it a bit more, your married, you cheet on your spouce. He/she walks in. You and you friend go for clothes. What just happend to your, marrage and relationship? Why are you suddenly scared to be naked infront of your spouce? Is your sp. going to be arround very much longer?
but that's not what happens. adam is not god's wife or husband. god is adam's father.
Tel me again, how does above mentioned statemet make God stupid. The writer is stating a possibility that God might have mesuring a day diffrently than we do.
no, the author of genesis is not. a later author is. maybe to explain genesis, maybe not. the author of genesis wrote the word day. as in days of creation. a day, evening and morning. if he had meant eternity, he would have eternity. if he had ment a myriad years, he would have said a myriad years.
why does it make god stupid? because god is unable to put himself in adam's point of view. god knows what a day is: he made them. god knows how adam experiences time: he made both adam and time. this sound like a good punishment to you? "don't do it, or i'll kill you a thousand years from now." right, ok. by then i'll probably want to die anyways.
god meant a literal day, the story is preposterous any other way.
True ,not about Loss of immortality and it is about the origen of man. i.e. God. Your focus is out of place. If your focus was on target, Lions would be mowing your lawn.
quote:Whatever your smoking, I want two!
Quite correct. A few people are called perfect in the word. But perfect does not always refer to sinless
but it does in the case of job. it HAS to mean "without sin" otherwise god's "punishment" of job is valid. the whole point of the gooey poetry center of the book, the whole driving conflict is that the just often suffer. if job is unjust, and all men are inherently sinful, there's no point in writing the book. and better yet, god would have said something to that extent when he shows up at the end.
If you are a Christian Death is no punishment, although we have to complete our task at hand and when its done, we will be called home. If you Don't belive in hell and think of Death as a cutoff switch, then it would be and easey way to cop-out of any problems. But hell does exist and therfor it is a punnishment to any one not found in Christ. Sorry.
no, i don't believe in hell. because i know a little tiny bit of hebrew, and the tradition revolving around it.
the english word "hell" comes from the hebrew "sheol" meaning grave. as in the physical place you are buried. sorry, but the tanakh (ot) just does not support any sort of afterlife, except possibly one akin to the greek hades (also not "hell") where people exist as shades of their former selves.
About Abraham and Moses... see Heb 11
i've you've read any of my other posts here, you'd already be aware that i don't like the apostle paul.