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Author Topic:   Claims of God Being Omnipotent in the Bible
ramoss
Member
Posts: 3123
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 136 of 381 (187544)
02-22-2005 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by xevolutionist
02-21-2005 3:08 PM


Re: Wise as Serpents
So, when the snake speaks, it is satan speaking out of his snake.

And, when the ass speaks with the lords voice, that is god speaking out of his ass??


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by xevolutionist, posted 02-21-2005 3:08 PM xevolutionist has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Derrick
Inactive Member


Message 137 of 381 (187550)
02-22-2005 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by arachnophilia
02-22-2005 5:37 AM


Re: Wise as Serpents
how are some men in the bible called perfect? good old job
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite correct. A few people are called perfect in the word. But perfect does not always refer to sinless. As far as I'm concerned it only speaks of God as perfect in any absolutes. Christians are made perfect in Christ. A man humble before God is also said to be perfect or rightous. (get where I'm going).
*********************************************************************

don't think death is a punishment
---------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are a Christian Death is no punishment, although we have to complete our task at hand and when its done, we will be called home. If you Don't belive in hell and think of Death as a cutoff switch, then it would be and easey way to cop-out of any problems.
But hell does exist and therfor it is a punnishment to any one not found in Christ. Sorry.

About Abraham and Moses... see Heb 11


This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by arachnophilia, posted 02-22-2005 5:37 AM arachnophilia has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Derrick
Inactive Member


Message 138 of 381 (187551)
02-22-2005 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by ramoss
02-22-2005 4:08 PM


Re: Wise as Serpents
Read it again, He gave the ass the ability to speak.

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 Message 136 by ramoss, posted 02-22-2005 4:08 PM ramoss has not yet responded

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2332 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 139 of 381 (187578)
02-22-2005 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by ramoss
02-22-2005 4:08 PM


Re: Wise as Serpents
Hi, Ram, still a lot of asses speaking today, but are they God-directed?

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Replies to this message:
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AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 140 of 381 (187581)
02-22-2005 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Derrick
02-22-2005 4:23 PM


Re: Wise as Serpents
Hi Derrick, welcome to EvC.

In the future, I would appreciate it if you were to use our quote feature in your posts. It makes posts easier to read and understand.

here is one method of quoting

Asgara writes:

get personal

quote:
here is another

You can use the PEEK feature at the bottom, right corner of this post to see how these were done.

Reading the last three links (especially the Forum Guidelines) in my signature quote box is also a good idea, and something we like all newbies to look into.

Once again, welcome to EvC


AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe

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This message is a reply to:
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xevolutionist
Member (Idle past 5262 days)
Posts: 189
From: Salem, Oregon, US
Joined: 01-13-2005


Message 141 of 381 (187603)
02-22-2005 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by doctrbill
02-21-2005 5:29 PM


Re: Wise as Serpents
quote:
In the Flood story, God changes his plan because his plan has failed. He has learned something (good for him) and from now on he'll do things differently (he says). How about you comment on this?

Perhaps God used this period in history as a lesson to those who would follow. He does love and care for us and knowing how evil all flesh [apparently even the animals were infected by sin] would become, He demonstrated that there is an end even to His patience, and demonstrated His power. At the same time He demonstrates His love by sparing Noah and sons to perpetuate the race.

I agree that the Nineveh story isn't about God changing His mind, He knew that they would repent [for a time at least]. I believe much of the language God uses is for our benefit. Instructive and illustrative to make a point.

quote:
Less than 90% of what the Apostles called "Bible" is still considered "holy" by the Christian community. The rest has been purged from your Bible (highy likely if you are Protestant). That culling was done by men. One might call them Holy Men. One might say their edit was 'inspired.' But no one can demonstrate that God or any of the Apostles approved their hatchet job.

What writings are you referring to? I'm aware of the apocrypha [why doesn't this site have spell check?] but I'm not sure that's what you're referring to.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by doctrbill, posted 02-21-2005 5:29 PM doctrbill has responded

Replies to this message:
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xevolutionist
Member (Idle past 5262 days)
Posts: 189
From: Salem, Oregon, US
Joined: 01-13-2005


Message 142 of 381 (187606)
02-22-2005 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by arachnophilia
02-22-2005 5:26 AM


Re: Great example of GOD lying Phat, thanks.
I love the way you dissect parts of my sentences without ever touching the meaning of them. I wasn't talking about anachronisms as you should know. Women didn't have seed!

I like the way I read it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by arachnophilia, posted 02-22-2005 5:26 AM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
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doctrbill
Member (Idle past 1103 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 143 of 381 (187632)
02-22-2005 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by xevolutionist
02-22-2005 8:51 PM


Re: Wise as Serpents
xevolutionist writes:

apparently even the animals were infected by sin

Since when does theology consider the consciousness, morality, or eternal salvation of animals?

Did the animals break the Ten Commandments?
Choose a god other than Yahweh?
Fail to get circumcized?

Where is the sin?

The LORD God is already depicted as naive. Let's not make him out ot be an idiot.

Now, to reiterate:

God curses the ground because men are evil, and vows to kill "every living thing,"

Then he saves samples of every living thing, recognizes that men are naturally evil, and says,

"I won't do that again!"

He demonstrates His love by sparing Noah and sons to perpetuate the race

How is saving anything consistent with his objective: To kill every living thing on the face of the earth?

I believe much of the language God uses is for our benefit.

Who else?

What writings are you referring to? ... [why doesn't this site have spell check?] ...

The Apocrypha, of course. [email programs do spell check don't they?]

db


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by xevolutionist, posted 02-22-2005 8:51 PM xevolutionist has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by xevolutionist, posted 02-23-2005 1:39 AM doctrbill has responded
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xevolutionist
Member (Idle past 5262 days)
Posts: 189
From: Salem, Oregon, US
Joined: 01-13-2005


Message 144 of 381 (187647)
02-23-2005 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by arachnophilia
02-22-2005 5:37 AM


Re: Wise as Serpents
quote:
quite. but think about it for a second. if the story is about permament guilt and original sin for all my kind, how are some men in the bible called perfect? good old job -- the story hinges on the fact that he hasn't sinned, and is perfect in every way.

Well, my version says that Job was blameless, not that he never sinned or was perfect. It even mentions that he was making extra sacrifices for his children in case they had sinned without realizing it. At one point in the narrative he asks God how many sins he has that he's not aware of.

quote:
why? i'll put in standard christian terms. when we die, we go to god, right? and now we're separated from god. if you truly believe... well, why isn't christianity a suicide cult? they completely invalidate this life, saying it's all preparation, a test to get into the next.

I look at it as if I'm supposed to live my life for God, doing what Jesus commanded. And this life is sweet indeed. Everybody wants to go to heaven, nobody wants to die.

Sure I've read some of the Bible. And that seems to be a recurring theme, about avoiding separation from God.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by arachnophilia, posted 02-22-2005 5:37 AM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
xevolutionist
Member (Idle past 5262 days)
Posts: 189
From: Salem, Oregon, US
Joined: 01-13-2005


Message 145 of 381 (187650)
02-23-2005 12:55 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by crashfrog
02-21-2005 4:14 PM


Talking snakes
Lost my head there and forgot that you view the Bible as mythology. I see it as God's revelation to us, kind of a handbook or operating manual for life and sometimes wonder why people are so opposed to it. Sure, people misuse and attempt to corrupt the message, but people do the same thing with heroin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by crashfrog, posted 02-21-2005 4:14 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 146 of 381 (187651)
02-23-2005 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by xevolutionist
02-23-2005 12:55 AM


Re: Talking snakes
I see it as God's revelation to us, kind of a handbook or operating manual for life and sometimes wonder why people are so opposed to it.

Even though it has talking snakes in it?


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xevolutionist
Member (Idle past 5262 days)
Posts: 189
From: Salem, Oregon, US
Joined: 01-13-2005


Message 147 of 381 (187653)
02-23-2005 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by arachnophilia
02-22-2005 5:49 AM


Re: Wise as Serpents
What motive would an animal have to subvert God? Satan, the fallen angel, one of God's creations that was so great he wanted to take God's place, would have a motive.

This message is a reply to:
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xevolutionist
Member (Idle past 5262 days)
Posts: 189
From: Salem, Oregon, US
Joined: 01-13-2005


Message 148 of 381 (187665)
02-23-2005 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by doctrbill
02-22-2005 11:43 PM


Re: Wise as Serpents
drbill writes:


Since when does theology consider the consciousness, morality, or eternal salvation of animals?

I don't know that the animals sinned, sin had an effect on all creation, and the verse says all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. It doesn't talk about consciousness, morality, or salvation of animals.

What value do books like Susanna have? What message of spiritual import is imparted?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by doctrbill, posted 02-23-2005 9:26 AM xevolutionist has responded

  
xevolutionist
Member (Idle past 5262 days)
Posts: 189
From: Salem, Oregon, US
Joined: 01-13-2005


Message 149 of 381 (187666)
02-23-2005 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by crashfrog
02-23-2005 1:00 AM


Re: Talking snakes
Because of the talking snake. I'm waiting to see how it turns out.

This message is a reply to:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 317 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 150 of 381 (187669)
02-23-2005 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Derrick
02-22-2005 4:03 PM


Re: Great example of GOD lying Phat, thanks.
consolidated reply.

You said you can find 6. Please find 2 that actually talk about the seed of a "woman", that also refers to virgin birth (Mary and JC i.e. gosples excluded

quote:
You said you can find 6. Please find 2 that actually talk about the seed of a "woman", that also refers to virgin birth (Mary and JC i.e. gosples excluded

quote:
Lev 15:18 The woman also with whom man shall lie [with] seed of copulation, they shall [both] bathe [themselves] in water, and be unclean until the even.

quote:
Rth 4:12 And let thy house be like the house of Pharez, whom Tamar bare unto Judah, of the seed which the LORD shall give thee of this young woman.

used in plural:

quote:
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

now, debate those if you want, but this one clearly uses the same phrase:

quote:
1Sa 2:20 And Eli blessed Elkanah and his wife, and said, The LORD give thee seed of this woman for the loan which is lent to the LORD. And they went unto their own home.

clearly seed is a euphemism for child. particularly the kind made with SEMEN:

quote:
Gen 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled [it] on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

was jesus made with semen? you tell me.

Whatever your smoking, I want two! what does Mac have to do with it?

tell me. was macbeth prophetic of me killing my boss, or did i just get the idea from reading it?

Did you actually READ Gen or are you working on hearsay? Before the fall they walke with God, talked with Him as friends, being Naked infront of Him (intemacy if you will) did not even botter them.
After the fall, all that's gone.

did YOU read genesis?

so no one walked with god after the fall?

quote:
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him.

no one talked with god on a regular basis? i bet i can find more verses that start "and god said" directed at moses than adam. the clothing bit has to do with awareness: they weren't concerned with nudity before, because they were just like the animals.

Let me colour it a bit more, your married, you cheet on your spouce. He/she walks in. You and you friend go for clothes. What just happend to your, marrage and relationship? Why are you suddenly scared to be naked infront of your spouce? Is your sp. going to be arround very much longer?

but that's not what happens. adam is not god's wife or husband. god is adam's father.

Tel me again, how does above mentioned statemet make God stupid. The writer is stating a possibility that God might have mesuring a day diffrently than we do.

no, the author of genesis is not. a later author is. maybe to explain genesis, maybe not. the author of genesis wrote the word day. as in days of creation. a day, evening and morning. if he had meant eternity, he would have eternity. if he had ment a myriad years, he would have said a myriad years.

why does it make god stupid? because god is unable to put himself in adam's point of view. god knows what a day is: he made them. god knows how adam experiences time: he made both adam and time. this sound like a good punishment to you? "don't do it, or i'll kill you a thousand years from now." right, ok. by then i'll probably want to die anyways.

god meant a literal day, the story is preposterous any other way.

True ,not about Loss of immortality and it is about the origen of man. i.e. God. Your focus is out of place. If your focus was on target, Lions would be mowing your lawn.

quote:
Whatever your smoking, I want two!

Quite correct. A few people are called perfect in the word. But perfect does not always refer to sinless

but it does in the case of job. it HAS to mean "without sin" otherwise god's "punishment" of job is valid. the whole point of the gooey poetry center of the book, the whole driving conflict is that the just often suffer. if job is unjust, and all men are inherently sinful, there's no point in writing the book. and better yet, god would have said something to that extent when he shows up at the end.

If you are a Christian Death is no punishment, although we have to complete our task at hand and when its done, we will be called home. If you Don't belive in hell and think of Death as a cutoff switch, then it would be and easey way to cop-out of any problems.
But hell does exist and therfor it is a punnishment to any one not found in Christ. Sorry.

no, i don't believe in hell. because i know a little tiny bit of hebrew, and the tradition revolving around it.

the english word "hell" comes from the hebrew "sheol" meaning grave. as in the physical place you are buried. sorry, but the tanakh (ot) just does not support any sort of afterlife, except possibly one akin to the greek hades (also not "hell") where people exist as shades of their former selves.

About Abraham and Moses... see Heb 11

i've you've read any of my other posts here, you'd already be aware that i don't like the apostle paul.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Derrick, posted 02-22-2005 4:03 PM Derrick has not yet responded

  
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