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Author Topic:   Some help from Creationists
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 31 of 53 (184432)
02-10-2005 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CaptRuss
02-03-2005 11:55 AM


  • Age: 41
  • State of residence Missouri: USA, But previously England
  • Marital status: Married with 2 teenage children
  • Education: BS in Chemistry and Programming, Pursuing an MS (and eventually a PhD) in Analytical Chemistry
  • Religious Affiliation: Atheist
  • Occupation: Research Chemist (Spectrometrist)
  • type: ME
  • Reason: After being brought up as a Jehovah's witness, I very soon realized that nobody was going to be able to answer any of my questions and even when they tried to, the answers were just rehashed and meaninglessly garbled rubbish. I sought out the answers myself and found many contradictions between the science that I came to love and the religion that I quickly left behind. I was Faced with the choice of believing what I can see, touch, taste, smell and calculate or believing a load of fairy tales that a group of old men and women had told me for my whole life.
    In my mind, there really was no choice.
    I grew up! and stopped believing in monsters under the bed and the Boogey man. I see absolutely zero evidence for the existence of a creator although I keep a more open mind about the supernatural in general. The jury is still out on that one.
PY

This message is a reply to:
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Ooook!
Member (Idle past 5815 days)
Posts: 340
From: London, UK
Joined: 09-29-2003


Message 32 of 53 (184466)
02-10-2005 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Silent H
02-09-2005 10:36 AM


Heck, I was shocked how many biology, and worse still pre-med, students felt they didn't need chemistry.
That's nothing! I had coursemates on a bioCHEMISTRY degree complain that they had to do CHEMISTRY modules. Yeeesh!!
And since I've barged onto this thread (despite not being a creationist):
Age: 28
Residence: London, UK
Marital Status: Married
Education Level: Piled high and Deep (in cell biology)
Religious Affiliation: Raised by a lapsed Catholic and an ex-methodist, now an agnostic
Occupation: research
Position: ME
Why: What other explanation is consistant with the facts?
Edit: realised "type of creationist" (relic of a cut and paste job) wasn't entirely appropriate
This message has been edited by Ooook!, 11 February 2005 00:21 AM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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truthlover
Member (Idle past 4059 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 33 of 53 (184528)
02-11-2005 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by nator
02-08-2005 4:02 PM


Schraf,
The post you mention looks like rhetoric and invective to me, not gibberish. I think it manages to use words that address nothing of substance.
I'm not saying Satrekker has a biology degree, but from what I can tell, bias and wishful thinking carry a lot of power over even educated people. Maybe I underestimate the effect of a college education, but I think an educated, biased person could easily have written that post.
About 20 years ago, I went to a class at a Baptist church on evolution conducted by a Chemist. He presented the whole "the odds are against it" argument, complete with adding up all the amino acids it takes to make a protein and ending with 10 to the 200th power, etc. He said, "the same evidence that convinces me the earth is old also proves to me evolution couldn't have happened." He was definitely a professional chemist, working for the defense department.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by nator, posted 02-08-2005 4:02 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 53 (184699)
02-12-2005 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Ooook!
02-10-2005 7:12 PM


You're in London? We might cross paths one day.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Ooook!, posted 02-10-2005 7:12 PM Ooook! has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Ooook!, posted 02-15-2005 6:23 AM Andya Primanda has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 35 of 53 (184706)
02-12-2005 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by truthlover
02-11-2005 8:28 AM


Hi Truthlover, I've missed having you here.
quote:
The post you mention looks like rhetoric and invective to me, not gibberish. I think it manages to use words that address nothing of substance.
I agree that it's not gibberish, but it's also no better that many of the more coherent Creationists without Biology degrees who have come here.
quote:
I'm not saying Satrekker has a biology degree, but from what I can tell, bias and wishful thinking carry a lot of power over even educated people. Maybe I underestimate the effect of a college education, but I think an educated, biased person could easily have written that post.
Oh, for sure. I do think he's probably educated.
...just not in Biology.
...or Chemistry or Physics.
He probably has a degree in Business of English or something and avoided all science since the 10th grade.
quote:
About 20 years ago, I went to a class at a Baptist church on evolution conducted by a Chemist. He presented the whole "the odds are against it" argument, complete with adding up all the amino acids it takes to make a protein and ending with 10 to the 200th power, etc. He said, "the same evidence that convinces me the earth is old also proves to me evolution couldn't have happened." He was definitely a professional chemist, working for the defense department.
Well, that Chemist was making the mistake of thinking that because he was a chemist, he somehow had any business speaking authoritatively about Biology.
I wonder if he was a research chemist or an applied chemist?
People with science degrees who do applied work rarely, if ever, test theories. They figure out practical problems.
That's a very different way of using science. One uses the method, the other uses the results of the method.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by truthlover, posted 02-11-2005 8:28 AM truthlover has not replied

Replies to this message:
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TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 53 (184793)
02-13-2005 1:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by CaptRuss
02-03-2005 11:55 AM


Age: 18
Location: Tampa, Florida
Marital status: Single
Education: Persuing degrees in Geology, Scientific Philosophy, and Design/Multimedia
Religious affiliation: Non-denominational Christian
Occupation: Design/Multimedia
Type: Stuck between a non-dogmatic form of YEC and TE/ME
Reason: Inevitably derived from my current understanding of the world.
This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 02-13-2005 01:11 AM

This message is a reply to:
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Maxwell's Demon
Member (Idle past 6229 days)
Posts: 59
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 37 of 53 (184956)
02-13-2005 6:35 PM


Age: 24
Residence: Stockholm, Sweden
Marital Status: Single
Education Level: I'll be getting my master's degree in Electrical Engineering (with a particular emphasis on plasma physics) in a few months if everything goes as planned.
Religious Affiliation: Raised by protestant christian parents, now not connected to any religion (I'm an atheist).
Occupation: Student
Type of "creationist": ME/MM
Why: The evidence.

  
Ooook!
Member (Idle past 5815 days)
Posts: 340
From: London, UK
Joined: 09-29-2003


Message 38 of 53 (185449)
02-15-2005 6:23 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Andya Primanda
02-12-2005 9:12 AM


You're in London? We might cross paths one day.
If you're very unlucky . I'm one of the multitude of Zombies that work in central London but commute in and out from the outskirts (Ah the tube - don't you just love it?).
How long have you been in the area?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Andya Primanda, posted 02-12-2005 9:12 AM Andya Primanda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Andya Primanda, posted 02-16-2005 11:37 AM Ooook! has not replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 53 (185844)
02-16-2005 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Ooook!
02-15-2005 6:23 AM


Since October. And the Tube is an improvement from the horrendous public transport system back in my hometown.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Ooook!, posted 02-15-2005 6:23 AM Ooook! has not replied

  
LDSdude
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 53 (185958)
02-16-2005 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CaptRuss
02-03-2005 11:55 AM


A joke, insult, or just honest question?
Maybe I'll help you with your..."report", if it even exists, but first I want to know if you are poking fun at creationists, sincerely trying to insult them, or if your "definitions" are neither and you really want to know about all of this(which I doubt).
I could help you with a few of those definitions, making them more accurate, if you want, but I want to know if it's even worth my time talking to you.
By the way, humor me if you already answered this earlier in another post, because I didn't have time to read anything but the beginning article.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Poole
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 53 (186009)
02-16-2005 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CaptRuss
02-03-2005 11:55 AM


Age: 20
State: Ohio
Marital status: single
Education: currently getting a B.S. in Math & Chem
Religious: I was raised in the Christian Church(Disciples of Christ), though I've been agnostic/atheist for about 7-8 years.
Occupation: Student, lab assistant
Position: ME
Reason: Plethora of evidence

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Replies to this message:
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LDSdude
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 53 (186398)
02-17-2005 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Poole
02-16-2005 9:16 PM


weird
seems like almost everyone here are formal religionists who now want for one reason or another to battle them. Hmmm.

This message is a reply to:
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CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 43 of 53 (186446)
02-18-2005 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by LDSdude
02-16-2005 5:27 PM


Re: A joke, insult, or just honest question?
From the quality of some of your posts, I'd suggest that taking such an attitude is not particularly productive.
quote:
I could help you with a few of those definitions, making them more accurate, if you want, but I want to know if it's even worth my time talking to you.
I find this a bit rich considering how wrong you have been in so many areas.
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 18 February 2005 02:55 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by LDSdude, posted 02-16-2005 5:27 PM LDSdude has not replied

  
Monk
Member (Idle past 3924 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 44 of 53 (188759)
02-26-2005 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CaptRuss
02-03-2005 11:55 AM


  • Age 45
  • State of residence: Kansas, USA
  • Marital status: Married with 3 kids
  • Education Level: BSME
  • Religious Affiliation: Baptist
  • Occupation: Consulting Engineer
  • Type: OE/DA
  • Why? It's been a long road, here's the summary: I was raised Roman Catholic complete with 12 years of parochial education. That didn't stick. I then rejected all religion while in college and forgot about God for many years. I didn't fully embrace atheism, but came close. Then about 5 years ago I found the Lord and have been walking with him ever since.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CaptRuss, posted 02-03-2005 11:55 AM CaptRuss has not replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 45 of 53 (218884)
06-23-2005 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by CaptRuss
02-03-2005 11:55 AM


those definitions are messed up
But I'll play to a degree, but not all the details.
39
married
non-denominational Christian
Raised to believe in evolution, and not a literal interpretation of the Bible. My Dad didn't really believe in the Resurrection. Mom did, but was sort of weak on believing in the Bible. She does not seem to accept things like the virgin birth. We were Episcopalians, but only attended church during the years they had a minister they liked, and even then, not all the time.
I was challenged in the 80s, after becoming a Christian, to look into the evidence for evolution. I had assumed at the time that the evidence for evolution was unassailable.
I was shocked to learn most of what I was taught as far as evidence for evolution was BS, and since then I have never accepted universal common descent.
Over the years, I have looked at the various models out there, but have never become convinced that the evidence is conclusive. I suppose I am more of an IDer/Old Earth Creationist, but I find parts of YEC compelling and find parts of theistic evolution or creationist evolution compelling as well.
I do believe God in some sense is connected to all matter, and that nothing self-exists without the direct intervention of God's presence to a degree. I think quantum physics is a more interesting and useful area of study to discuss origins since we need to find out what everything is made of to properly even assess what constitutes "material."
This message has been edited by randman, 06-23-2005 03:06 AM
This message has been edited by randman, 06-23-2005 03:07 AM

This message is a reply to:
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