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Author Topic:   Articles and books directly against leading creationists?
PaulK
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Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
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Message 5 of 20 (189443)
03-01-2005 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by micahfitch
03-01-2005 10:23 AM


To comment on Cooper I've come across people trying to argue for one of his claims - specifically the claim that the Germanic people included Noah and his sons in their pagan myths. WHen I reported the following there was no real response.
THe essential problem is that the only sources are Christian - and when I checked out the most easily available source (Snorri Sturluson's Edda) I found that Cooper had neglected to mention that it contradicted his claim.
According to Cooper the Germanic Seskef is the Biblical Japeth - and some sources do indeed make Seskef's father Noah. The Edda not only does not claim this (as Cooper implicitly admits) - it explicitly contradicts it.
Sturluson was an Icelander living after Christianity had becoem the dominant religion. Among other things he tried to preserve the stories of the pre-Christian times. If there was a genuine pagan tradition making Noah Seskef's father there is no reason why Sturluson should not mention it (if anything he should be expected to mention it as a validation of the old tales).
An introduction to the Edda and a translation of the prologue - the section we are concerned with - may be found here:
Psychonomicon's Introduction to the Prose Edda
The Flood is explicitly mentioned - Sturluson was living in a Christian society - but following that Sturluson moves on.
I have omitted parts that are not directly relevant but you can read hte link and see that nothing of importance has been left out.
Near the centre of the world where what we call Turkey lies, was built the most famous of all palaces and halls - Troy by name...
...There were twelve kingdoms with one over-king, and each kingdom contained many peoples......One of the kings was called Mnn or Mennn. He married a daughter of the chief king Priam who was called Trin, and they had a son named Trr - we call him Thr......In the northern part of the world he met with and married a prophetess called Sibyl whom we call Sif ......Lrii, who resembled his father, was their son. Lrii's son was Einridi, his son Vingethr, his son Vingener, his son Mdi, his son Magi, his son Seskef, his son Bevig, his son Athra, whom we call Annar..."
Thus according to the Edda a long time after the Flood when the human population had greatly recovered we have the kingdom of Troy (ruling over "many peoples"). And from there we have eight generations of ancestors for Seskef (Munon, Tror, Loridi, Einridi, Vingethor, Vingener, Modi and Magi). And Cooper mentions none of this.
If Cooper can't be trusted to accurately represent an easily obtainable source then how can anything he says be considered reliable ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by micahfitch, posted 03-01-2005 10:23 AM micahfitch has not replied

  
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