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Author Topic:   Evolution or Devolution?
Percy
Member
Posts: 22479
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 76 of 80 (189693)
03-02-2005 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Dr. Silverman
03-02-2005 5:29 PM


Re: Neandertals
Dr. Silverman writes:
I have been very willing throughout to justify my claims by reference to the scientific literature (Boltzmann, Prof Sir Hermann Bondi and Schrodinger to name but a few) and if you ever read Kerner's work I am sure you will find that he does too.
EvC Forum is a debate site where rather than handing out reading assignments you're expected to make your points in your own words using links and references in a subsidiary role. Rebuttals should move the debate forward by addressing specific points raised by others rather than vaguely referring to your earlier arguments.
In particular the implication that my definitions (of 2LOT) may not be accepted even if they are axiomatically consistent with accepted laws of physics and are logically self consistent unless I recant on Kerner's alleged heresy seems very bizarre.
What you've said so far about 2LOT leaves the impression that you don't understand it. Specifically, like Kerner you appear to be confusing entropy with everyday definitions of disorder, and this is only reinforced by your agreement with Kerner that 2LOT only permits devolution and not evolution.
I have only registered once.
I'm glad to hear that.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Dr. Silverman, posted 03-02-2005 5:29 PM Dr. Silverman has not replied

Doc Bonz
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 80 (189776)
03-03-2005 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Percy
03-02-2005 9:36 AM


Re: Neandertals
I have been following this topic with much interest. I have also read Kerner’s book and am a professional scientist in Oxford. This book is interesting for those who are open-minded and the theory of devolution is an interesting concept especially if you start to analyse available data on cosmology and fossil records etc with this mind. The Universe is expanding at an increasing rate and will eventually end with a cold death. There will be eventually no light, no heat and no life. Luckily for the inhabitants of the Universe this will take a very long time.
Thus it will all eventually comply with the 2LOT and all regions of the universe will be affected including my house which appears to fall into a complete state of disorder compared to other regions very quickly for some reason! Although the 2LOT applies to the whole Universe, during its lifetime there are areas of apparent order including galaxies, solar systems and planets that can support life.
Darwin’s theory of natural selection has been proven to be correct from many observations of nature. However, the formation of life (its only happened on one planet as far as we have observed) and the evolution of human beings from apes is another matter and I think these both still require thorough investigation and rationale explanations supported through observation. Kerner’s book offers an interesting but controversial theory.
I like to view the Universe as a giant hologram that is fragmenting through the 2LOT, with each fragment (the smallest being a hydrogen atom) retaining the information of the whole but it is only beings/fragments of a certain consciousness or order (i.e. human beings) that still retain the capacity of free will to either go with the flow (i.e devolve) or improve their state of order.
If you also accept the possibility that all life may have a conscious element (many people don’t) that continually reincarnates after physical death (based upon Eastern philosophy) and that this consciousness once incarnated into a physical body is then also subjected to the laws of universe and the 2LOT, then we have a system by which each individual by freedom of choice can determine their own fate during many incarnations. If one goes with the flow and essentially becomes an observer through many lifetimes (which the majority of human beings do) then you will eventually lose the capacity to change and reincarnate into another human body. Your fate is then essentially sealed along with the Universe. Therefore 2LOT rules in this Universe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Percy, posted 03-02-2005 9:36 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Loudmouth, posted 03-03-2005 12:45 PM Doc Bonz has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13014
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 78 of 80 (189780)
03-03-2005 12:40 PM


Four supporters of a theory promoted by an out-of-print book written by a reclusive British journalist show up at EvC Forum inside of a week with extremely similar writing styles and viewpoints and all refusing to actually engage the discussion - what a coincidence!
Unless there are objections, I'll be shutting this one down soon.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 80 (189783)
03-03-2005 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Doc Bonz
03-03-2005 12:15 PM


Re: Neandertals
quote:
Thus it will all eventually comply with the 2LOT and all regions of the universe will be affected including my house which appears to fall into a complete state of disorder compared to other regions very quickly for some reason!
Have you actually read any of the posts? I and others have repeatedly said that the common usage of "disorder" is different than the specific connotation within thermodynamics. A messy room or a house that falls apart are not consequences of the laws of thermodynamics. The direction of evolution is not governed by the laws of thermodynamics. The evolution of intelligence does not violate any law of thermodynamics. A decrease in intelligence is not an increase in entropy. If you think it is, please explain why.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Doc Bonz, posted 03-03-2005 12:15 PM Doc Bonz has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13014
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 80 of 80 (189814)
03-03-2005 2:59 PM


There's no way to know for sure what's going on. All the pro-Kerner members have posted with a promotional flavor, and they've all avoided actual discussion, so perhaps it's an attempt at book promotion.
Closing this one down.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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