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Author Topic:   Violent propaganda
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3 of 135 (191190)
03-12-2005 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Syamsu
03-12-2005 11:35 AM


IMHO such tactics, in addition to being down right stupid, would be counter productive. I know personally, as a Christian, such attempts to defame Muhammad or Islam would simply make me MORE sympathetic to the Terrorists causes. In the general Islamic population worldwide it could only increase recruitment for terrorist organization.
I can't see much difference between an organization that would promote such practices and the terrorists themselves. As an American I would find any such tactics to be totally un-American and if carried out under Executive orders, an Impeachable Offense.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Syamsu, posted 03-12-2005 11:35 AM Syamsu has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 135 (191361)
03-13-2005 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Syamsu
03-13-2005 10:34 PM


Re: hm
The objective of the terrorists is to make nations which are hypersensitive to observance of Islam.
Talk about a WAG. Really something with NO support at all.
There seems to be no weighing of pro's and con's in the replies.
Sure there has. There are NO pros and lot's of Cons. LOL
So on the one hand terrorists would be weakened because their beliefs are weakened.
So far you have never shown anyway that their faith would be weakened.
So I would suggest to test it, and the Netherlands would be an appropiate candidate to do it.
LOL. You're pretty free using other nations for such experiments. LOL.
You keep mentioning free speech but I fail to see how what you propose is free speech?
For example, we know that Paul of Tarsus was a queer, and that while Jesus may well have been bisexual, he certainly preferred having his gay male friends closest. But would publishing the facts really shake the faith of the Fundamental Christian Terrorists that would like to wipe Islam from the face of the earth?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Syamsu, posted 03-13-2005 10:34 PM Syamsu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by joshua221, posted 03-13-2005 11:21 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 135 (191366)
03-13-2005 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by joshua221
03-13-2005 11:21 PM


Re: hm
Wild Ass Guess.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by joshua221, posted 03-13-2005 11:21 PM joshua221 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 03-14-2005 6:24 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 52 of 135 (200054)
04-18-2005 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Wounded King
04-18-2005 4:26 AM


I think we are getting way away from some important points.
The problem is that the real Evil Nation in the Terrorist Camp is Indonesia. If you examine what has come to light since 9-11 the recurring theme is that Indonesia was the meeting ground and home base for all of the various terrorist elements. Instead of invading IRAQ which has not been shown to have played any part in Terrorism, we should have invaded Indonesia.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Wounded King, posted 04-18-2005 4:26 AM Wounded King has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Andya Primanda, posted 04-22-2005 10:51 AM jar has replied
 Message 70 by Tal, posted 04-26-2005 12:37 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 69 of 135 (201176)
04-22-2005 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Andya Primanda
04-22-2005 10:51 AM


The really sad part ...
is that you are the only person to have responded to that message.
The purpose of the message was to try to point out how absolutely absurd the planning, purpose and methodology of the War of Terror really is. I picked Indonesia because several key meetings were held there. The fact is that they were held there because Indonesia has a well developed communications and transportation infrasturcture.
I could have as easily picked France, England, Germany, Italy, Spain, Brazil, Mexico, Canada, Portugal, Chile, Argentina, the Philippines and particularly the US. Each country was host and a training camp for the 9-11 terrorists.
Notice, Iraq is missing from all of them. It simply was not a significant player, the infrastructure was demolished, communications lousy, it was surrounded by US forces and under constant monitoring for all communications and transportation. Today's terrorists, above all else, want access to basic infrastructure and technology, things not found in undeveloped countries but rather in the developed world.
But you are the only person that responded. And we think we have a chance to address the issue.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Andya Primanda, posted 04-22-2005 10:51 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 71 of 135 (202636)
04-26-2005 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Tal
04-26-2005 12:37 PM


Re: I think we are getting way away from some important points.
Sorry but that has little to do with why we invaded IRAQ. Taking planes hostage has been standard terrorist tacktics for many, many decades and such sites were built in many locations, including Lybia.
Sorry, but that's really, really weak support.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Tal, posted 04-26-2005 12:37 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Tal, posted 04-26-2005 1:49 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 77 of 135 (202684)
04-26-2005 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Tal
04-26-2005 2:24 PM


Re: I think we are getting way away from some important points.
Tal
Terrorist sites are everywhere, Florida, Canaada, every developed country and most developing nations, anywhere there is infrastructure and resources. But IRAQ was simply not a big problem.
First it was surrounded. Second it was under the microscope. Third, the infrastructure was going to pot rapidly. Fourth, it was a serious threat to its neighbors, but not to the US. Fifth, it was a controlled threat.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Tal, posted 04-26-2005 2:24 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Tal, posted 04-26-2005 3:14 PM jar has not replied
 Message 80 by Tal, posted 05-02-2005 1:09 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 81 of 135 (204329)
05-02-2005 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Tal
05-02-2005 1:09 PM


Re: I think we are getting way away from some important points.
I disagree. Where did the 9-11 hijackers get their flight training?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Tal, posted 05-02-2005 1:09 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Tal, posted 05-02-2005 2:00 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 83 of 135 (204348)
05-02-2005 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Tal
05-02-2005 2:00 PM


On responses and reaction to terrorism
This thread started when a now suspended member suggested that the correct response to terrorism what to use violent and offensive propoganda directed at muslims.
But an underlying issue is how do we deal with terrorism.
IMHO our current response such as invading IRAQ simply show that the current administration has no clue what terrorism is or how to respond to it, and that such actions as they have taken have been stupid and counter-productive.
Your response above seems to indicate, IMHO, a simlar shallow understanding.
I base my beliefs and support my assertions by the following:
  1. Terrorism relies on knowledge and infrastructure.
  2. The occasional terrorist with a bomb strapped to his ass is not a threat to ANY Nation.
  3. Effective terrorism requires an intellegent and educated guiding force.
  4. The tools needed for the above are not found in some burned out wreck of a fuselage in the desert.
  5. Communications infrastructure is found in developed countries.
  6. Transportation infrastructure is found in developed countries.
  7. Manufacturing infrastructure is found in developed countries.
  8. Educational infrastructure is found in developed countries.
  9. therefore, terrorists go to developed countries for training and supposrt.
The current War of Terroism, like the War on Drugs, is stupid because:
  1. Resouces are limited.
  2. By using resources in attacking and occupying IRAQ we divert resources that could have been used to address terrorism.
  3. One of the big goals of terrorism is to provoke a response that is grossly out of proportion. This is exactly what we have done. By invading and occupying IRAQ we have increased recruitment outside IRAQ.
  4. We have reduced the civil liberties of our civilians.
  5. We have moved the focus and attention from Terrorism to the validity of the Invasion of Iraq.
In all, I stand by my statement that terrorist training takes place primarily in the developed world, primarily in the US but also in Europe, the rest of North and South America and to a lesser extent, Asia.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Tal, posted 05-02-2005 2:00 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Tal, posted 05-02-2005 3:06 PM jar has not replied
 Message 88 by mick, posted 05-03-2005 12:13 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 87 of 135 (204643)
05-03-2005 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Andya Primanda
05-03-2005 8:41 AM


Re: On responses and reaction to terrorism
Remember, after any US invasion there follows bountiful foriegn aid. Unless of course, after we free you and make you safe for democracy you do something stupid like freely elect somebody we don't like. Then we have to get your choice overthrown or assasinated.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Andya Primanda, posted 05-03-2005 8:41 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 89 of 135 (204658)
05-03-2005 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by mick
05-03-2005 12:13 PM


Re: On responses and reaction to terrorism
I certainly agree. Another necessary component is to change the conditions on the ground that lead someone to adopt terrorism. Money spent on things like education, health care, employement, social safety nets and infrastructure are required.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by mick, posted 05-03-2005 12:13 PM mick has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Tal, posted 05-03-2005 4:30 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 91 of 135 (204723)
05-03-2005 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Tal
05-03-2005 4:30 PM


Re: On responses and reaction to terrorism
As to your laundry list in IRAQ, no, of course not. Damn it, we broke everything and now should get credit for fixing them. Laughable.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Tal, posted 05-03-2005 4:30 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Tal, posted 05-05-2005 8:12 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 115 of 135 (205227)
05-05-2005 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Tal
05-05-2005 8:12 AM


Re: On responses and reaction to terrorism
Well, let's ask a question or two.
How long was IRAQ surrounded and embargoed?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Tal, posted 05-05-2005 8:12 AM Tal has not replied

  
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