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Author Topic:   What is the Meaning of John 3:16?
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 317 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 10 of 156 (191579)
03-14-2005 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by trent13
03-14-2005 6:45 PM


since purple caught it first.
an additional point:

Christ acts as the scapegoat for man's sin

the bible is so ingrained in our society that people fail to realize when the say something of biblical origin. in this case, the word "scapegoat."

scapegoat comes from leviticus chapter 16, in the kjv. it's poor translation of a proper name: azazel.

azazel is another heavenly entity. he's one of two things: the only foriegn god the israelites are commanded to sacrifice to, or the only angel named in the torah. in enoch's watchers, azazel is the angelic being that teaches man to make war on the nephilim. he and his rebel angels (200 i think) are cast down by god for this sin, into the pit of hell. azazel is one of the origins of the modern christian satan story.

but one thing is certain from the biblical text: he is the personage that the people are to sacrifice TO and not the sacrifice.

so, no, christ would not be a "scapegoat"


This message is a reply to:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 317 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 12 of 156 (191584)
03-14-2005 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Thugpreacha
03-14-2005 6:10 AM


john is not making sense. the lord cannot have only one begotten son.

quote:
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

quote:
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

quote:
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, "Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

note that last one. it's first person, and not written by jesus. and here "begotten" can't mean actually fathered by god. it's talking about a king being set up on the mountain of god, and MADE into the son of god. it's a coronation.

"son of god" it turns out is what the ancient hebrews called all their kings. david was the son of god. so calling jesus "the son of god" is calling him king. but the only king? sure, figuratively i guess. but there were other kings.

now, about the genesis and job verses... i'm starting to think they might just mean kings, and this whole angel/foriegn god business is all later interpretations.


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 317 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 13 of 156 (191586)
03-14-2005 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by jar
03-14-2005 11:35 PM


Re: since purple caught it first.
glad you liked that jar. :)

i do enjoy debunking the occasional common misunderstanding, and showing that the bible is actually a really interesting and influential book, whether or not you like or believe it.


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 317 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 15 of 156 (191591)
03-14-2005 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by jar
03-14-2005 11:48 PM


i'm confused.
what are you getting at? (out with it!)

i'll ponder for a while what i think john is talking about in chapter 3. i haven't really paid much thought because i don't like john.

This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 03-14-2005 11:55 PM


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 317 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 17 of 156 (191594)
03-15-2005 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
03-15-2005 12:02 AM


Re: i'm confused.
oh, i see.

so, basically, does it say "...so that whoever believes in [god]..." or "...[jesus] shall have everlasting life" ?

good question! and an important one. lemme go see if i can divine anything from the interwebs.

added by edit: the greek is no help, still uses the pronoun. and i don't know enough to greek grammar to be able to say it refers to one or the other.

This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 03-15-2005 12:32 AM


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 Message 77 by Gospel Preacher, posted 05-20-2006 11:30 AM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 317 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 19 of 156 (191601)
03-15-2005 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
03-15-2005 12:36 AM


Re: i'm confused.
well, no. three ways.

thomas refers to jesus as god in chapter 20. jesus fails to correct him. it's possible that john considers them to be one person, and so who the pronoun refers to wouldn't be important.

but i do think the context of the book of john will probably indicate that the traditional interpretation is correct to the author's intentions:

quote:
Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

this seems to paraphrase the ideas of John 3:16: son of god, believe, life. but the grammar is more clear, and the author is clearly refering to believing that jesus is the son of god/king.


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Replies to this message:
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