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Author Topic:   The numbers game...
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 31 of 41 (190896)
03-10-2005 7:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ohnhai
03-08-2005 7:00 AM


What if 100 believe X to be true and 1 that it is not, what then?
palmer joss is trying to make a deist point, which is funny coming from a fundamentalist preacher. that 95% just believes in some kind of god, period. if it came down to WHICH god is right, possibly greater than 95% would in fact be wrong.
i liked him better as a tatooed circus freak than the "insert cute guy here" love interest. the book actually makes a better comment on spirituality, intelligent design (for lack of better words), and it's role or lack thereof in the things important in life. but i won't spoil the ending.
and no, numbers of believers do not affect the truth of the belief.
This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 03-10-2005 07:20 AM

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Replies to this message:
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Monk
Member (Idle past 3924 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 32 of 41 (190928)
03-10-2005 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by ohnhai
03-10-2005 3:52 AM


Re: Representatives
ohnai writes:
If you make the distinction between Theist and Atheist claiming the theist is more proportionally representative then surely you must carry that thinking on into the religions themselves.
No, you don’t need to carry it on. Again, there is no need to dissect the characteristic into increasingly smaller divisions. Having a belief in God is an attribute which has the broadest commonality among the group in question, that group being the population of the Earth. It is that commonality among the population which is why the selected representative should also have that attribute.
ohnai writes:
If you are going to play the numbers game then play it fairly.
Then why stop at religious belief? Why not examine physical characteristics? How tall is the representative? Is their height sufficiently close to the average height of the world’s population? What about average height in the US? In Europe? And on and on...
If you start down the slippery slope of dissecting each and every characteristic of the individual, the selection committee will ultimately come to the conclusion that there is no individual that can be found who has all of the examined attributes in acceptable proportions.
So the selection committee concludes that no representative can be sent on this historic mission. Instead, it is agreed that the following message would be sent:
"We, the people of Earth, regret that we were unable to decide on which being of our species could best represent our planet. Please accept this communication in exchange. Have a nice day and please visit us sometime."

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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 41 (190945)
03-10-2005 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by ohnhai
03-09-2005 6:45 PM


Re: Representatives
quote:
Ok so we have decided to send a religious person to represent us to aliens, as they represent the majority of the population. So In this regard, which religious belief, do you choose to represent everyone else? Remember there is only one seat.
My opinion is that the representative should be from one of the larger religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Christian, Islam, Judaism) and that the representative should also be well versed in the tenets of all of the major world religions. Just my opinion.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 34 of 41 (190951)
03-10-2005 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by ohnhai
03-09-2005 6:45 PM


Re: Representatives
Remember, a Diplomat, an Ambassador, does not represent his or her personal beliefs, but instead must represent the commission.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Replies to this message:
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ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5162 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 35 of 41 (190994)
03-10-2005 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Loudmouth
03-10-2005 1:20 PM


Re: Representatives
one of the larger religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Christian, Islam, Judaism).
Judaism is hardly a big religion in terms of numbers. At only around 15million adherents as of 2005 (World Christian Database) where as Christianity can boast 2.135 billion Muslims 1.31 billion and non religious (including atheists) can muster 920 million, even atheists alone can muster 151.5 million.
Added by edit---
Heck it looks like non-belief has overtaken Hinduism (there only being 870million Hindus compared to the 920 non-religious) Neat!
This message has been edited by ohnhai, 11 March 2005 01:38 AM

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ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5162 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 36 of 41 (190995)
03-10-2005 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by jar
03-10-2005 2:11 PM


Re: Representatives
so why not send an ahteist?

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 37 of 41 (190996)
03-10-2005 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by ohnhai
03-10-2005 8:32 PM


Send an Atheist?
Sure. Why not? I certainly can't see any reason how membership in some specific group would even come up?
If the person is a Diplomat, and Ambassador, he or she would be a Representative of ...?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 38 of 41 (191029)
03-11-2005 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by arachnophilia
03-10-2005 7:19 AM


How about fashion?
Arachnophilia writes:
numbers of believers do not affect the truth of the belief.
That isn’t always the case, as it depends on what the belief is about.
If 95% of the population believes that wearing a baseball cap back to front is very fashionable, then it is very fashionable and their belief is justified.
But if the same belief is shared by only 5%, then wearing a baseball cap back to front is merely a fringe phenomenon, and their belief is not justified.
So, numbers of believers can make a difference in the truth of one and the same belief. Of course, as can be seen in the example, this only happens when the belief is self-referential. Fashionability is a matter of numbers of adherents. If you believe something is fashionable, then what your belief is really about is how many others believe the same thing.
But when a belief is not self-referential, then its truth or falsity can often be established empirically. And when not, then, in any case, numbers of believers are not a valid argument in establishing the truth of a non-self-referential belief.

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 39 of 41 (191041)
03-11-2005 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Parasomnium
03-11-2005 5:13 AM


Re: How about fashion?
If 95% of the population believes that wearing a baseball cap back to front is very fashionable, then it is very fashionable and their belief is justified.
no! it's still unfashionable!
sorry, i had to.
i was speaking more about things that are not matters of public opinion, and actually have substance to them: right and wrong answers.

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ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5162 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 40 of 41 (191380)
03-14-2005 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Parasomnium
03-11-2005 5:13 AM


Re: How about fashion?
So is religion self-referential? If so does it carry the same weight empirically as reversed baseball caps?

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TechnoCore
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 41 (191739)
03-15-2005 3:56 PM


Wouldn't it be neat if the world had a global vote on it?
That would be some campaigning!
Those who belong to one of the smaller groups, would propably have to vote for another faith. One that had a fair chance of winning the seat, but still beeing fairly close to their faith (or lack of)

  
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