What's the Fabric of space made out of?

Hi Lyndon. A hearty welcome and thanks much for taking the time to come on with some substantial educated debate on tired light relative to the space debate and this alternative to the argument for an expanding spaced universe. Your website is well organized and helpful. Though I'm not educated enough to understand the formulas and math, one such as myself can go to the home page and click on the segment of what Ashmore's Paradox is all about and understand it quite well. Though you've indicated you're passing through, I hope you will stay logged in and bless us with your wisdom and knowledge whenever you can spare the time, since we really need more of an educated balance on some of these issues here at EvC.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

I'm not educated enough to debate the link's physics, but I do see a problem with the balloon analogy/model, in that if you paint dots like these on a balloon and blow it up, the dots do grow congruently with the spaces between the dots. Doesn't that taint your model?

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

Of course. It is only an analogy after all, and like any analogy it fails at some point. But you can improve the analogy by thinking of buttons glued on a balloon. The buttons hold together at the same size despite the glue trying to pull them apart. Galaxies are held together like this by their own gravity.I've previously explained this in more technical detail in other posts.I also have a response ready for Lyndon; but am waiting to see if a new thread should be formed. I'd like to see the existing posts and thread of discussion on tired light maintained, however.Cheers -- Sylas

I'm new here and not sure what is going on. Help!
I only posted about 'Tired Light' to correct the erroneous statements posted here on this thread - sorry if I have overstepped the mark.
Lyndon

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Lyndon Ashmore - bringing cosmology back down to Earth!

.....Like a bit of tampering can do wonders to make most any analogy work for one's advantage. Right? Btw, if you glue the buttons on first, before the expanding of the balloon, they'l pop off. Why? Because the area/space which they occupy expands congruently with the whole balloon. That leaves you with essentially the same problem with your space model, imo. Yes, I understand that electro-magnetic forces, et al are suppose to restrict expansion in occupied ares of your alleged expanding space, yet your definition of space remains, imo, ambiguous.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

Please go to this page (the "Proposed New Topics" index page) and click on the "New Topic" button, which is located near the top right. This will get you to the place to create a new topic.Once there, created a topic title in the "Subject" area, and an opening message in the "Message" area. Feel free to draw from your previous messages in this topic.The "Proposed New Topics" forum is the place we use to (try) to get new topics off to a good start. Strive for a meaningful title, and a quality opening message.The "PNT" forum is NOT a place for debate - It is just a "get started" point. Messages in a "PNT" topic are restricted to being by only the topic originator and by the various admins. No one else can post there.Once you have your opening message in place, one or more admins will either approve it (based on the quality of the message, not the content of the message) and move it to the "Big Bang and Cosmology" forum, or will suggest changes to be made. We are striving for good writting structure and an opening message that says what needs to be said, but is not too long.You are welcome to submit any requested revisions as a new message. Just copy and paste your previous message into the new message form, and make the edits there. Any individual message can be used to become message 1 of the new topic.You may wish to use the "Peek" button, found at the bottom of the individual messages. This will give you (in a new window) the raw text of the message, suitable for copying. By raw text, I mean it will show how any special coding was done.Please take any further questions on how you start topics to the Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum topic, link below.Adminnemooseus

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The thread is about the "fabric" of space, Lyndon. I'm understanding that so long as we post messages pertaining to that, nobody's overstepped; certainly not your posts, as you state, are responsive refutations. Until we get clarification from admin, I assume we are free to carry on so long as we hold to the topic of space. I don't see how arguments for or against expansion of space which includes redshift, tired light, et al, can be detached from the topic which is the fabric /properties of space.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

Hi Moose. I missed your post before my last post. I need to leave my computer now. Hopefully Admin Sylas will organize a new thread if that's what admin has decided. Thanks.{Note from Adminnemooseus - No way you could see it. Both messages were posted at the same time.}This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 03-15-2005 02:05 PM

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

"Whats the Fabric of space made out of?" is a pretty broad theme. Kind of like "Let's talk about the universe".The "Tired Light" concept is more specialized and it is lyndonashmore's special interest.While it may well not be off-topic here, the bottom line is that we (admins) think it deserves and should be it's own topic.My previous message was my best effort to outline the hows and whys of the "Proposed New Topics" process.Adminnemooseus

I tried to edit and move the first of the tired light posts to a new topic but it, again, did not work. It seems to be that it is an adequate OP.It could be proposed as is I think.

Please take the tired light discussion to the new thread. For context, Sylas and Lyndon may want to post copies of their tired light posts from this thread.This message has been edited by Admin, 03-15-2005 02:56 PM

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

No problem; you did nothing wrong. This is actually a compliment. The topic is interesting and deserves it's own thread. I'll propose it. I wish there was an easier way to move posts. (Is there?)Cheers -- Sylas

No problem Moose. Thanks for responding. It appears that the new thread will do the job.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

How about if you designate which posts should be moved and each participant copies and pastes their own posts to the new thread, that is, unless you want them in the same order as were originally posted?

I have now copied the major articles to the new thread at Message 1. I created a special proxy account for Lyndon Ashmore to copy his posts. That was a violation of forum rules, but there seemed to be no other good way to do it. The proxy account will now be retired permanently.All discussion on Lyndon's model to the new thread. Thanks all. This should be interesting.