For the Christians here: Why do the heathens rage?

I thought as much!

I have to echo jar here. As a Christian I have only ever been insulted or treated poorly by other Christians on this board. To be perfectly honest, the behaviour of some Christians on this board has made me ashamed to say that I'm a Christian. I haven't seen much evidence of the "heathens" raging against Christians, but I've seen plenty of evidence of "Christians" raging against anyone and everyone who doesn't swallow what the "Christians" say just because a "Christian" said it.

Time once again to post one of my favorite forum mesasges ever, from another forum: I could if I wanted to:

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As for me, I am perfectly willing to let people say, "This is my opinion and I cannot back it up," as long as they don't object to being criticized and mocked for it.

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You rather weaken your stand, though, when you begin whining and trying to cast those who make the charge of "He's got nuthin'" as prejudiced, as unfair, as "making the assumption that those that disagree with them are blithering idiots."

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Stick with admitting that you have no intention of defending your opinion, and accepting that the heat for that is justified, and then at least you can be credited with integrity.

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Go ahead and take your stand, and take the heat for it. But don't try to get out of debating and get credit for "I could if I wanted to." If you really didn't want to defend your statement, the ethical thing would have been to not make it in the first place. If you refuse to make a case, other people are quite justified in concluding that you have no case to make, and stating that opinion.

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I'm sure there may be individual cases of that. But the best way to handle that is to stick to it and put the evidence forward again. Try to insist on a reason for any apparent rejection.However, I, for one, don't recall much of a deluge of evidence from you. Perhaps you'd like to pick the best 3 cases where your evidence as been ignored.You may find that there are different standards for evidence in the sciences than you are used to.

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Why do the heathens rage?

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Because you get extra attacks per round and do more hit point damage.You have to be careful, though, because it only lasts a short time and then you are fatigued.

The addmission of ignorance is the beginning of learning.Guess wer'e all just bits 'o bacon to Pecos George

DHA, when Christians speak of "trying" as an impossibility, they mean that it is impossible to try and be godlike. Human nature is simply not built that way, for them at least. They would prefer to believe that trusting God is opening the opportunity for His impartation and Spirit to raise us up and teach us to love all that is Holy. The problem...the clash of worldviews...is when we are taught by our church to abhor any appearances of evil. In context, what is mean't by Christian catchphrases such as "Be ye seperate..."We try so hard to be perfect instead of admitting the impossibility of perfection. Ironically, we are trying to be as gods instead of letting God be God in us. Historically, the absolutists, although argueably morally true, became despots who stifled creativity and pronounced judgement on a world where free ideas and rational thought ultimately enabled the progression of humanity to the next level.This is the ultimate paradox. Is the next level attained through surrender and impartation, or is it achieved through human effort and imagination? Is this a black/white issue or is a shade of gray appearing?? Well, compared to an infinite and loving God, we ARE bits o bacon.
He did give us the means to think, however. God wants more from us than to be hopelessly imperfect and simple. How do we achieve our destiny?This message has been edited by Phatboy, 03-23-2005 12:30 AM

Hi PecosGeorge,I have learned some interesting things here--things I probably couldn't have learned elsewhere. Some very expert people have discussed interesting things with me. There IS derision, sure. But that is not all that happens here. Not to me, at least, and I'm a literalist...a YEC...I believe in a young created earth. If anyone were going to experience pure derision, it'd be me, right? That is not my experience. Some very knowledgeable people, who disagree very strongly with me, have laid their derisions aside (if they had any) to engage me in polite, but challenging, discussions about radiometric dating and other interesting subjects.RAZD, NosyNed, Roxrkool, Percy, JonF, PaulK, Sylas, Dr. Cresswell, WoundedKing, CrashFrog...just to name a few...have all engaged me politely. I have seen the Admins, particularly Adminnemooseus, to be as tough...perhaps tougher...on the evos as the creos...regarding debate rules. That is MY experience with the admins here.I have also enjoyed your unique posts, PG (they are almost poetic at times). I agree with some of your posts, disagree with some.Some boards do indeed do what you say. I don't go there. Nor do I engage people who seem intent merely to mock Christianity. But, while I have definitely seen Christianity mocked here (and I would hardly not expect that), it isn't all that goes on.To be clear...I am NOT defending the mocking of Christianity nor all the actions of the people that frequent this board. I am only saying that derision of Christianity is not all I experience here.Do with that information and view what you think is right. It is an attempt to answer your question as best I can.--TheLitedited to insert important word I left out.AbE:
Ya, and AdminNosy will demand faithfulness to topic no matter WHO you are, right? I am sure he catches it for that, sometimes.This message has been edited by TheLiteralist, 03-23-2005 02:35 AMThis message has been edited by TheLiteralist, 03-23-2005 02:42 AM

vs. How can we admit the impossibility of perfection if god wants us to be perfect. Get out of bed in the morning.

The fundie would argue that God wants us to achieve perfection through the process of surrender to the Holy Spirit who then indwells us and raises us to perfection through communion.The scientific and/or practical literalist would disagree, saying that surrender to an ideology is akin to checking ones brains in at the door and becoming a blind sheep.The Bible guy would respond by saying that to truly see, one must become blind. To truly have revelation, one must find the truth through the acceptance of a personal relationship with the Truth Himself.What would DHA say?

None of this is responsive to what I posted.

My point is that you may believe that perfection is obtained through individual initiative and effort while I may believe that perfection is obtained through surrender to God.

What is perfection?By what standards could we judge perfection if we are not perfect?

Or are DHA and Phatt starting a thread of their own?

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No. Well actually, DHA and I are showing how we can disagree without my feeling like the Heathen are attacking me. What do you think, Jar? Is this related to the topic?Perfection is Christ.

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Truth is stranger than fiction because we have made fiction to suit ourselves.
-- G.K. ChestersonIt ain't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so.
-- Will Rogers