IC challenge: Evolve a bicycle into a motorcycle!

The likelihood of the bike to motorbike is likely equal or better than the likelihood of building a single single functional protein randomly from primordial soup.The chance of assembling 50 essential amino acids randomly to correct sequence so as to build a single functional "folded" protein would be about 10 to the 65th power or about one in the number of atoms in a galexy according to the following very interesting sight. When you bring up the site, go down about halfway and click on the link regarding mathmatical liklihoods.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/8830/abiogenesis.html

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

You know them as well as I.

Off topic, but some of us do. Get sensible if you want responses. See link in my recent post.This message has been edited by buzsaw, 03-27-2005 10:07 AM

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

We better get back to serious topic or admin'll feed us to the lions!

You need be highly commended, Razd, for the wonderfully intelligent designing of your bicycle. How about a lever regulated or even computerized long mainspring coil rigged up somehow inside of front and back wheels around the hubs to somehow wind up when you brake on the hills and elsewhere which you can later, when needed release to add to your needed power in your design?This message has been edited by buzsaw, 03-27-2005 08:11 PM

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

You're obfuscating my argument, Parasomnium.
Regardless of what degree of perfection an intelligent designer has in the beginning, both God and humans are intelligent designers.
The debate is whether intelligent design brought the things we are observing in the universe and our world to be or whether they came to be without intelligent design by natural and random processes.
Razd is a an intelligent being who designs what is observed in his product. Neither the original nor the changes came about by natural and random processes, or what is known as RM/NS. That intelligent design did it is my argument. It is not about the designer, perse, as your obfuscating post inferrs.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

Cool it, Schraf. I'll get to you when I get to you. Amins Moose and Percy often advise that it's ok to slow down, take time and post at one's pace. I'm doing some research on this random/ns bit. I'm not done by a long shot here yet. First though, you people again have come at me so as for the need to defend my character, and that galls me.

It's not that simple, Charles. To imply that NS can be totally isolated from randomness is a false implication and that's what's going on here. I know that many evolutionists like to argue this, but many are intellectually honest enough with themselves and others to know and to admit that randomness is involved to some extent in NS and the earlier in the process, the more the randomness.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

I said that contrary to the implications of evolutionists here, many evolutionists do believe that randomness is involved in NS.In the book, "What Evolution Is", Ernst Mayr says evolution is chaotic chancy events that, in time produce diverse species fitted for their environment.Mayr says evolution isultimately happens by chance/randomness, and that there are many unpredictable factors in alleged NS. Alleged NS, for example, is subject to environmental conditions which come about by chance and randomness.Alleged natural selection would be better described as natural variation, in that the results should naturally more likely lead to chaos than order from what is observed in the real here and now world. ref: Mayr, 2001, p.229It is only intelligence that has the capability to select. That's why I say, the earlier in the process, the more random the process is. Not until intelligence is accomplished is there any possibility of any degree of selection. It's easy to say that an advanced species can select, but not so easy to say that primitive life could allegedly select apart from randomness.Even advanced species would need some motivation of selection. Why on earth would a sea creature have the desire or motivation to become a land lubber??? If it were to become so, it would have to come about by chance/randomness.This message has been edited by buzsaw, 03-30-2005 11:40 AM

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

Hi Percy. You know and my counterparts should know by now that over time, buzsaw has referred to RM/NS numerous times in specific reference to the process as depicted by those who believe it. it is totally meanspirited and obnoxious forum behavior for my counterparts to call me on being dishonest and in violation of rules when I refer to the whole process as random. This's the way I see it and I should not be denied that right to express what I believe as I believe it. In fact, in message 10 right here early in this thread I referred to it as both random and natural, though I omitted the word, "selective." I was using a non-specific terminology of the alleged process. I don't have anything specific in mind, but I know this generalization goes on all the time here at EvC. Why then should these, my meanspirited counterparts get by with raising all this dogpile like hellibaloo over this with impunity, attacking my character in violation to forum guidelines.?

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw