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Author | Topic: what is feminism? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
pink sasquatch Member (Idle past 6022 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: |
did you think that the average woman just came up with this? no. feminism started in academia. the first feminist was actually an academic. and a man at that. his book is subjugation of women. his name? john stuart mill. an economist. not even a historian. how bout that. How bout that? Well it's wrong, to begin with... The first women's rights conference was held twenty years before Subjugation of Women was written; and the movement begin some time before that conference. Women began the organized women's rights movement in the US, specifically women (like Elizabeth Cady Stanton) involved in the abolitionist movement who realized that they themselves were lacking and deserving of many rights, not unlike the slaves they were fighting to free. Women's rights ideas had been around much longer in less organized form, at least back to the Revolutionary era and their promotion by Abigail Adams and others. Maybe not quite "average" women but definitely not "academic", at least not in the sense you use...
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Actually, academic science does have quite a lot to do with medicine, in that basic research into Biological phenomena leads to greater understanding of them and that will lead to better therapies, drugs, and procedures. Can you show me where academic feminist ideas are similarly absorbed into the mainstream populist feminist movement? I doubt you can, simply because I am part of that movement and I had never heard of "feminist ecology" before you mentioned it. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-29-2005 06:35 PM
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
no. i understand the argument. i still think it's crap. i think it's quite sexist to say that all "cultural" men are rapists.
This message has been edited by brennakimi, 03-29-2005 11:17 PM
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
i think it's quite sexist to say that all "cultural" men are rapists. Oh, absolutely, I agree. That would be sexist. But the reason I know you didn't understand my argument is because you're convinced I said something like that.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
actually. academic science has very little to do directly with medicine. and remember. there is more to science than biology and much more than medical biology. studies of deep sea worms will not make your pace-maker run better.
but, as i said. an academic founded feminism. and who cares if you heard of it. who are you anyways?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
who are you anyways? Yeah, Schraf! Didn't you know? Brennakimi invented feminism.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
there weren't very many academic women then were there? but they were about as well educated as a woman could be and i'm sure their reading didn't consist of dime store novels.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
you did say that. even if you don't realize it.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
piss off.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
you did say that. even if you don't realize it. I guess I can just quit posting. Both you and Arach are apparently so good at reading my mind and telling me what I really meant to write but didn't, you can pretty much just cover anything I'd ever want to say, huh?
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
ok. that is what you managed to say even if you didn't mean to. you should exercise more caution in your words.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
that is what you managed to say even if you didn't mean to. you should exercise more caution in your words. I don't know how I could have made it any more clear than when I said:
quote: in message 132. It really does help when you read what I actually wrote, not what you want me to have said.
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5819 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
Look I get what you were saying (if that's any consolation). It seems to me both A and B are having problems because they are arguing from what they's like the world to be rather than admitting there are other ways of viewing things.
In addition A (and maybe B) blew a gasket over your extension of the male "gender" to raping, impregnating, and abandoning. I don't think you believe in that definition yourself but I have to admit the way you wrote it made it sound like you did. While I would disagree with that view of "masculine" role, I'd have to admit there are some that actually do believe that is "man" in a nutshell. Thus it seems a bit odd to say it simply isn't. A has a point that was not the worldview that anyone on the project was using, so to view it that way is to view it through a foreign filter not conducive to understanding the piece. Then again I think A has abandoned gender filters altogether which also seems a little nonconducive. Other people do have to watch it (unless the movie was made for themselves) and those people will see things based on gender roles. Or if they put themselves in place of characters will perceive themselves to have gone through different roles. I think the gender role filter you described is not common to most in the US, but I think a filterless view is even less common than that. Maybe you need to put in a word on whether you want to see the world change for a filterless view, or not. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: That's why I didn't say it was directly associated with medicine. However, there have been many basic research discoveries in diverse fields which have eventually found themselves being applied in the medical field. Even applied sciences like Engineering are involved, designing things like artificial hearts with the knowledge and skills already existing in the industry, developed for other uses.
quote: No, but it may help us to understand "the bends" better and treat someone with it more effectively. Since these animals have very interesting chemistry, it may be that some compound they produce will be useful to medicine as a drug or drug component.
quote: According to Pink, that's not how it went. How is it that non academic women had a conference on feminism a couple of decades before you say Feminism was founded?
quote: Me? I'm part of that populist feminist movement you have insisted is overrun with academic feminist ideas. So...if I've never heard of most of those ideas, maybe you (gasp) might be wrong about that. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-30-2005 07:23 AM
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
i never said overrun. you need to stop exaggerating my statements. i said that they reflect many of the developments. who do you think came up with the gender being separate from sex junk?
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