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Author Topic:   The Nature of Scientific Inquiry; Is Evolution Science?
LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4702 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 10 of 86 (195501)
03-30-2005 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Faith
03-30-2005 12:00 PM


Your Thoughts?
Faith writes:
I don't consider the scientists themselves to be dunderheads at all, merely the victims of this theory which is unquestionable, not subject to proof or disproof, testing, falsification or replicability. Remember it is the THEORY that I'm saying does not meet these normal standards of scientific method, not any given scientific observation.
For this THEORY, could you show any specific part that cannot be falsified?
What part is not subject to testing?
What, as you understand it, constitutes replicability as far as this theory is concerned?
Faith also writes:
You cannot prove anything that happened in the past {Edit: without some kind of witness corroboration from that time}.
I agree that you can't PROVE anything that happened in the past except I would go so far as to say that even witness corroboration can be considered suspect.
Be that as it may, I suspect that you are saying that we can't even make come up with anything close to the truth about what happened in the past. Does this mean that we should not consider forensic evidence or conclusions when bringing someone to trial?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Faith, posted 03-30-2005 12:00 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 04-10-2005 1:30 AM LinearAq has not replied

  
LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4702 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 68 of 86 (198342)
04-11-2005 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by mark24
04-11-2005 12:58 PM


Re: OK Faith, so how about it?
Hi Mark,
Frankly, I read your posts and I did not clearly understand them. I assumed that the cladistic classifications and the "ordering of fossiles in the rocks" were derived from data collected independent of each other. That allowed me to get a fair inkling of what you were trying to show Faith.
I don't think Faith understands that these are independent derivations. From her posts, she seems to think that one derives from the other or that they are both derived from the same data. Hence, her claims of circular reasoning.
This is just my observation from the reading of the posts...I don't want to speak for her. I am just trying to ensure that what you think you are saying is getting communicated to Faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by mark24, posted 04-11-2005 12:58 PM mark24 has not replied

  
LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4702 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 75 of 86 (198450)
04-12-2005 4:53 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by mark24
04-11-2005 5:26 PM


Re: OK Faith, so how about it?
Percy writes:
Well, yes, but as Linear pointed out, it isn't clear she understands the evidence derives from independent sources.
It is for anyone who read post 12.
Frankly, I disagree so I read post 12 again. In it you give a brief description of cladistic classification. You then say that a check of the determination of nodes could be done by making a comparison with the data in the rocks.
Then this statement:
Given that the cladograms under study are independent of stratigraphy, it is possible to compare the two to see how well they match.
Unless one understands how they are independent, this seems like a poorly supported assertion. Even the paper in the link you provided assumes that the reader knows the two are independently derived. Faith never acknowledges this statement. In fact, in post 46, she states:
In the end I'm not really sure you've proved anything more than is already inferred from the appearance of the fossil record itself -- that is, the appearance of a hierarchy of morphologies represented there, which is what suggested the idea of evolution in the first place. What the cladogram does is refine this basic inference
This one statement seems to show that she thinks the cladogram is just a diagram derived from the fossil data in the rocks and not a classification system independent of that data.
I'm sure you believe you showed that this is independent corroboration of evolutionary theory. However, it is not completely clear to me. One question I have is, how are the nodal points determined on the cladogram?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by mark24, posted 04-11-2005 5:26 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by mark24, posted 04-12-2005 5:38 AM LinearAq has not replied

  
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