Buzsaw Permanently Suspended

It may seem very strange, coming from me, but could I enter a plea on behalf of Buzsaw? This permanent suspension isn't at all what I expected.I know I have been one of Buz's worst 'meanspirited counterparts' lately, perhaps even the one who he hates most at this moment, but after reading the last few of his posts, it has finally dawned on me why Buzsaw thinks evolution is a random-only process. It all hinges on a misunderstanding on his part, that I think can be remedied if we discuss it with him in a patient and courteous manner.I hereby retract my accusation of dishonesty and offer Buzsaw my sincere apologies for being such an obnoxious fool. If I promise I will behave in the future and if Buzsaw is willing to engage in honourable debate with all of us, is there a small chance then that he could be reinstated as a full member of this debating club?Please?"Avoid the base hypocrisy of condemning in one man what you pass over in silence when committed by another." - Theodore Roosevelt, Cambridge, Massachusetts, March 11, 1890.

Thanks for the explanation, Dan. I didn't feel like reacting to the bare joke, although it brought a smile on my face.I guess I feel a bit responsible for Buz's suspension. (No Dan, not the shock absorbers.)But seriously, if we can have Brad, then why can't we have Buz? I know, the comparison is a bit lame, but nobody puts a gun to our heads and makes us talk to either. We do so, because we want to. Or we don't because we don't.But now, we don't have that choice anymore.

I know. As I said, the comparison is a bit lame.But what I meant to compare was people's attitude toward both of them. You can either try to work your way through Brad's spaghetti or you can just ignore him altogether.Likewise, you can either delve into the darkest recesses of Buzsaw's irrational thinking, or you can ignore him as well.I am truly sorry my joke with the megaphone got so out of hand, especially because I definitely see a possibility of explaining to Buz what his error regarding randomness and selection consists of. It will be hard, both to put it into words, and to make him understand, but I think it could be done.But he is no longer here. Sad.

That's exactly what I think is the problem with Buzsaw's - and other creationists' - thinking about selection. We need to explain to them how selection can - and does, in evolutionary thinking - mean something other than a conscious choice.

I've seen some very lucid writing from Brad, so I wouldn't say he can't help it. He says himself he uses "the language of future science". I take that as a choice he makes to write that way. At times it may become irritating, if not maddening, when you know that he can also write in plain English.Also, I'm not convinced of his brilliance. He's bright, no doubt, but brilliant? I'm not sure. I agree with you that there is a lot of unwillingness in Buz to let go of his irrational beliefs, in spite of the very clear explanations he is presented with on this board. But I think that even the most eloquent writers here sometimes fail to see how a simple word, the meaning of which they take for granted without a moment's thought, can easily be mistaken to have a slightly different meaning, resulting in complete misunderstanding on both sides as to why the other cannot comprehend the most basic, simple concepts.Believing that this is what happened in the latest discussion with Buz, I can no longer be mad at him, at least not this time.Afterthought: it is possible that Buz is in fact just playing inncocent and purposely misinterprets our words. I am willing, though, to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I'll bet he's done that by now.

Hear, hear.

Look at the list of people online!

Oh. Of course.

Even when I didn't debate with him, I learned a great deal about the science topics he took on, if only because it made me look up lots of things. And when I did debate with him, it sharpened my English pen. Too much perhaps, but still.My vote: yes-F.{edited to add colour}This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 31-Mar-2005 07:46 PM

That reminds me of something that is usually attributed to Franois-Marie Arouet, a.k.a. Voltaire, but which was really written by Evelyn Beatrice Hall, who sort of summed up Voltaire's attitude:

quote:

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

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(See? There's something else I had to look up. On EvC, you learn something new everyday.)Buz, if you ever need a megaphone to shout your silly thoughts through, you know where to look, don't you?Take care, old crumpet.