Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   soul of fundamentalism
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 121 of 135 (196411)
04-03-2005 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Trump won
04-03-2005 11:41 AM


Re: Back to John again I see.
Why would Jesus follow the God of nothing. Of a fake history?
Again, Jesus does not follow the Bible. Jesus IS GOD. If every tale in the Bible were no more than tales told round the campfire, GOD would still be GOD. If there were no Jews, no Christians, no Bible, GOD would still be GOD.
The Bible does not define GOD.
The Bible is but a work of humans, written for humans and to be understood within the context of the people and the time.
Do you agree that GOD created the Universe? Is that a belief that you hold as true?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Trump won, posted 04-03-2005 11:41 AM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Trump won, posted 04-03-2005 12:23 PM jar has replied
 Message 127 by Phat, posted 04-03-2005 1:16 PM jar has replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 122 of 135 (196418)
04-03-2005 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by jar
04-03-2005 11:56 AM


Re: Back to John again I see.
Jar,
what did Jesus mean when he said the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. When he chastized ppl for not knowing the scriptures?
Jesus followed the law "not a part of letter or stroke of a pen"\
When Jesus said the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob does that not define God, of and in the stories of the OT?
For it is written...For it is written...For it is written

im going to find it soon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by jar, posted 04-03-2005 11:56 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by jar, posted 04-03-2005 12:27 PM Trump won has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 123 of 135 (196425)
04-03-2005 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Trump won
04-03-2005 12:23 PM


Re: Back to John again I see.
He is refering to the traditions of the people. Nothing more.
And no, that does not define GOD.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Trump won, posted 04-03-2005 12:23 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Trump won, posted 04-03-2005 12:33 PM jar has replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 124 of 135 (196430)
04-03-2005 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by jar
04-03-2005 12:27 PM


Re: Back to John again I see.
Jesus said God said this
Mark 12:26 - And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by jar, posted 04-03-2005 12:27 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by jar, posted 04-03-2005 12:51 PM Trump won has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 125 of 135 (196437)
04-03-2005 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Trump won
04-03-2005 12:33 PM


Re: Back to John again I see.
Chris, I have no problem with Jesus using references and examples. I agree that Jesus as well as others, just as we do today, drew on the historical tradition as allegory and parable.
I think we are in a rut and need to search for another venue. A few posts back I asked you a specific question or two. Can we moved back to try that line of reasoning or should we continue with you pulling out passages where I say "Yup, he used it as an example and lesson"?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Trump won, posted 04-03-2005 12:33 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Trump won, posted 04-03-2005 12:55 PM jar has not replied
 Message 130 by Trump won, posted 04-03-2005 1:55 PM jar has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 126 of 135 (196439)
04-03-2005 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by jar
04-03-2005 12:51 PM


Re: Back to John again I see.
I know that he used it as a lesson and to teach the ppl but he flat out said God is the God of the old testament, I don't know why you don't see that when its clear as day.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by jar, posted 04-03-2005 12:51 PM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 127 of 135 (196447)
04-03-2005 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by jar
04-03-2005 11:56 AM


Re: Back to John again I see.
jar writes:
Again, Jesus does not follow the Bible. Jesus IS GOD. If every tale in the Bible were no more than tales told round the campfire, GOD would still be GOD. If there were no Jews, no Christians, no Bible, GOD would still be GOD.
The Bible does not define GOD.
But if we had no Bible, how would we know that God had a Son? How would we know that this Son is coming back? How would we know that we need to be watchful of the spiritual war within and around us?
These things are important.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by jar, posted 04-03-2005 11:56 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by jar, posted 04-03-2005 1:28 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 128 of 135 (196450)
04-03-2005 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Phat
04-03-2005 1:16 PM


Re: Back to John again I see.
But if we had no Bible, how would we know that God had a Son? How would we know that this Son is coming back? How would we know that we need to be watchful of the spiritual war within and around us?
These things are important.
These things are important to Christians. They are Articles of Belief of Christianity.
IMHO we need to be concious of the difference between GOD and religion. Religion is a creation of man, it is an attempt to understand the nature of the superset GOD. Religion is not GOD.
If we had no knowledge of GOD, if there was no religion, no Jew, no Muslim, no Buddhist, no Christian, no Hindu, no Pagan, no Satanist, there would still be GOD. GOD is not the product of Man, he is GOD.
Religion is the product of Man.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Phat, posted 04-03-2005 1:16 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Phat, posted 04-03-2005 3:51 PM jar has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 129 of 135 (196457)
04-03-2005 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Silent H
03-16-2005 5:06 AM


Re: references
I don't think Plato would give a feel for the Israelites, or Rome, I speak woth a Hebrew scholar often, about this very subject too. I have yet to see something that is thge Israelites.

im going to find it soon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Silent H, posted 03-16-2005 5:06 AM Silent H has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 130 of 135 (196459)
04-03-2005 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by jar
04-03-2005 12:51 PM


back to jesus
Once upon a time a writer wrote about this guy named Abraham, these writings became part of the history, the living culture of the Israelites, then a man named Jesus came, he is considered God among christians. He said that God is the God of Abraham. He must have been referring to those writings of a man named Abraham.

im going to find it soon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by jar, posted 04-03-2005 12:51 PM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 131 of 135 (196484)
04-03-2005 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by jar
04-03-2005 1:28 PM


Religion is the product of Man.
And as such, we have a saying: Its not about religion. Its about relationship.
Even if I had never heard about Jesus or about the greatest commandment, I would somehow have been drawn by God unto Himself.
I just know that I would! He would then impart into me His love with which to love my neighbor as myself.
Right?
When I go to the detention center, I often do not study my Bible before I talk to the youth. I just pray that God goes before me and that I look at each and every one of them as God would look at them.
Those kids don't need Bible learning. They need a relationship.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by jar, posted 04-03-2005 1:28 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by contracycle, posted 04-04-2005 7:09 AM Phat has replied
 Message 134 by mick, posted 04-05-2005 9:01 PM Phat has replied

  
contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 132 of 135 (196628)
04-04-2005 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Phat
04-03-2005 3:51 PM


Re: Religion is the product of Man.
quote:
And as such, we have a saying: Its not about religion. Its about relationship.
An imaginary relationship with a being attributed with awsome cosmic powerz is a RELIGION in every respect, whether it is you with christ or a shaman and his Fetch.
quote:
Even if I had never heard about Jesus or about the greatest commandment, I would somehow have been drawn by God unto Himself.
Surely a devout Buddhist would claim the same? Or a Muslim? I'm quite sure you believe this - but its good circumstantial evidence for the argument that all religions are imaginary, rather than they are all real.
Further, its still imaginary - it all depends on the imaginary properties of your imaginary friend. Of course you "would" be so drawn to god, becuase god "is" all these wonderful things you can imagine, because that is how you imagine god.
quote:
I just know that I would!
And plenty of people KNEW that god them to do It, whatever It was. Not good enough. If you can KNOW, show proof. Otherwise you merely believe, or simply imagine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Phat, posted 04-03-2005 3:51 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Phat, posted 04-05-2005 10:14 AM contracycle has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 133 of 135 (196897)
04-05-2005 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by contracycle
04-04-2005 7:09 AM


Religion is the product of Man? Nope..Man was created by God.
contracycle writes:
An imaginary relationship with a being attributed with awsome cosmic powerz is a RELIGION in every respect, whether it is you with christ or a shaman and his Fetch.
Here wego again! Call it imaginary if you wish, but it is very much a relationship.
Surely a devout Buddhist would claim the same? Or a Muslim? I'm quite sure you believe this - but its good circumstantial evidence for the argument that all religions are imaginary, rather than they are all real.
Only if it is established that ALL truth claims that are non verifiable by scientific method are relativistic. The scientific method is perhaps the only way to establish concrete evidence but we are not talking science...we are talking faith and belief.
contra writes:
Further, its still imaginary - it all depends on the imaginary properties of your imaginary friend.
Kinda reminds me of that line in Scarface..Say Hello to my little friend!..Except I proclaim to you and to all who will listen, Say Hello to my friend who created you...the rock that you are standing on spinning through space...Who knows you better than you know yourself! He knows your heart and your motives...and He knows that you think Him imaginary...so for now He waits patiently while you live out your life doing your best! Many think that god and religion were products of the imagination of man. Others, such as myself, believe that man was another product of Gods creative imagination!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by contracycle, posted 04-04-2005 7:09 AM contracycle has not replied

  
mick
Member (Idle past 4986 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 134 of 135 (197090)
04-05-2005 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Phat
04-03-2005 3:51 PM


Re: Religion is the product of Man.
Its not about religion. Its about relationship
In that case would it be reasonable for me to say that my girlfriend is God? I have a relationship with her. She has mysterious feminine wiles which I am at a loss to explain. She can control my behaviour (i.e. stop me from smoking and drinking too much). Even better than god, I can actually talk to her, and everybody else can see her. I just know that she's there. She imparts love to me and seems to know me even better than myself. I also fear her.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Phat, posted 04-03-2005 3:51 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Phat, posted 04-06-2005 2:37 AM mick has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 135 of 135 (197157)
04-06-2005 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by mick
04-05-2005 9:01 PM


Re: Religion is the product of Man.
monk writes:
In that case would it be reasonable for me to say that my girlfriend is God?
It would be reasonable for you perhaps, but some would say that you were an idolator! Worshipping and serving the creature rather than the Creator! Shame on you!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by mick, posted 04-05-2005 9:01 PM mick has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024