GOD Bless John Paul II

Rrhain writes:

quote:

---

That doesn't change the fact that he was an evil, evil man...

---

I have serious problems with him too, but you make it sound like he had no redeeming qualities at all. If nothing else, I appreciate the attention he tried to draw to the humanitarian tragedy in Africa. One might argue that he could do more than just draw attention to it, but even that is more than any other western leader seems willing to do.

---

Keep America Safe AND Free!

While I disagree with many tenets of the Roman Catholic Church I also believe that John Paul II was a great Pope in a troubled time. He made some significant changes, in particular acknowledging that the Church has erred in the past.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

He was kind of like the first rock-star pope. And I guess he was a good guy. You know, unless you were a woman who didn't want to get pregnant. Or gay. Or a scientist trying to help people with the same disease he had with stem cell treatments.Did the church ever apologize for helping the Nazis kill all those Jews? I don't remember it doing that, but maybe I wasn't paying attention.

Yes he did. In addition he has worked since long before he was elected Pope, to improve the relationship between Jews and Catholicism.He worked hard to embrace both Judaism and Islam as well as the other branches of Cristianity. He visited Englend and met with Queen Elizabeth, prayed in Anglican Cathedrals, visted many Synagogues and Mosques.One thing that really impresses me is that throughout his tenure he has never used the regal We, but always the more egalitarian I.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

quote:

---

BTW, the Necronomicon isn't actually a real book.

---

Yeah I heard that actually. You know anything about it? This guy wrote a book on it, and my teacher was telling us about one day.

---

The escape exists within ourselves, not within the bank account's numbers of papers.

Wow, where did you find that stuff?
That's crazy.

---

The escape exists within ourselves, not within the bank account's numbers of papers.

Please take it to a new topic. Try to be careful that someone else didn't beat you to it. We only need one.Adminnemooseus

The title of this topic is "GOD Bless John Paul II" and I actually thought that it might be somewhere that people could leave condolences or little messages of sorrow at his death.There are people on this board (well at least one) who are greatly saddened that he has died and it is totally insensitive to make your claims in this way. Could you maybe start another thread for the debate on the goodness or evilness of this man?As for my opinion on the matter, I won't be posting it here because I have no intention of opening up my personal feelings to any accusations of defending evil or making derogatory comments before he is cold. Make of that what you will.

Ditto-
I was suprised how long it took before the ever reliable JAR made the first post on the news. I learned again what we are dealing with on EVC. It is not what I had thought--It was not what I had thought before I had the opportunity of viewing posts any time, any day either.

Seriously, if bush said that he "created" some government program, would you fall out of your chair laughing because you knew he didn't really write or design the program?He DID take the initiative in creating the internet.That is literally, word for word, true.

I would. I don't care WHAT politician said it. Don't you find an important difference between "The boy did it." and "A boy did it." ?He took AN initiative in creating the internet. It's WRONG to use "the"--clearly there was more than one initiative in creating the internet (the people who came up with the idea, the people who actually implemented it).PLUS it's misleading. Many people would assume that "the initiative" would refer to the actual technical side of it, and not the administrative side. Gore's gotta know better than that (especially if he wanted to be our 'fearless leader'). It's important for a president to be able to understand the expectations and understanding of others.So, no, it's NOT literally word for word true.P.S. This is true, regardless of Gore's "intended" meaning.

Alexander responds to me:

quote:

---

Just out of curiousity, what makes you say he was evil?

---

By his direct action, he has caused thousands of people to die. He did so with no remorse, no sense of shame, and in fact did so out of a sense of righteousness. In the face of those who were the most exploited, the most downtrodden, the most in need of compassion and assistance, he told them to choose death over life.And that is evil.

---

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Monk responds to me:

quote:

---

quote:

---

Well, since Gore never said he invented the Internet (he said he helped to provide the funding that eventually led to the invention of the Internet

---

​

True, Al didn't say he invented it, he said he created it.

---

Oh, get over yourself. He wasn't talking about "creation" as if he were sitting at a computer somewhere hacking Pascal code and developing the IP stack.He was talking about money. He's talking about what a Senator does which is pass laws and put money where it needs to be. Didn't you read your own source? Do you seriously think he's talking about developing a networking protocol?I notice you haven't quoted any of the speeches he gave concerning the growth of technology and the use of computer networks in the development of society.Do you know where the Internet came from? Before it became public, there was a military computer network infrastructure known as ARPANet. It was specifically through the work of Al Gore that this networking technology was expanded into the public sphere and became the Internet that we have today. Newt Gingrich says so. Vinton Cerf...and you do know who he is, yes?...has said that it was Gore's work in the Senate that helped the Internet become a reality.I notice you didn't include the very next sentence out of his mouth. Didn't you read your own source? What do you think he's talking about? He's talking about his work as a Senator. He was asked about he brings to the table, what public works he has been involved with, and he responded appropriately mentioning the projects that exist today precisely because he did his job as a Senator doing what a Senator does.We never seem to have this problem when we talk about the president "creating jobs." Nobody seems to think that when we say the president "created jobs" that he actually went out and started a business and thus developed the need for a worker. No, of course not. The president is a functionary of government and he does his job as a functionary of government to provide an economic environment that results in a business finding it needs a worker.Are you really that naive?

---

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

berberry responds to me:

quote:

---

quote:

---

That doesn't change the fact that he was an evil, evil man...

---

​

I have serious problems with him too, but you make it sound like he had no redeeming qualities at all.

---

No. Nobody is pure anything. I'm sure he cared for his mother, truly wanted to see the Poles liberated from communism, and etc.Just because a person is capable of doing something good does not make him something other than evil.

quote:

---

If nothing else, I appreciate the attention he tried to draw to the humanitarian tragedy in Africa.

---

(*ahem*)He is part of the reason that there is a humanitarian tragedy in Africa.HIV will wipe us out as a species and Wojtyla seems to think that it is better for a woman to die of AIDS than protect herself. Never mind the rape gangs. Never mind the orphans. It is your place to die rather than protect yourself.

---

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Right, ok, you just keep saying that to yourself sport, it'll sound better each time. Al Gore was not yet in Congress in 1969 when ARPANET was started or in 1974 when the term Internet first came into use. Gore was elected to Congress in 1976.

---

My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind. ---Albert Einstein