A chance to be a pro-science activist!

"Debunk Creation", What Creation?I don't know a kid in my school who has ever questioned Evolution, or even thought about it as more or less then truth.People protest ID in schools, that's funny. Why eliminate it because of disagreement?I don't see a reason why it would harm the student body.Rather open new ways of thinking. As long as it isn't one-sided.This message has been edited by prophex, 03-20-2005 08:00 PM

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Social Darwinism enjoyed widespread popularity in some European circles, particularly among ruling elites during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. During this period the global recession of the 1870s encouraged a view of the world which saw societies or nations in competition with one another for survival in a hostile world. This attitude encouraged increasing militarization and the division of the world into colonial spheres of influence. The interpretation of social Darwinism of the time emphasized competition between species and races rather than cooperation.

Because of "the holocaust" having happened not too long ago, a world war, and a lot of evidence, It's taught that it actually happened.ID is just an alternative to a sketchy history.You forget that students sort of forget to question things in school. They start to think that whatever a teacher says is truth, and questioning it is a waste of time. They become desensitized. This would be abolished if some things were questioned for them, or rather another opposing view was put into the picture.I've noticed good teachers do this, like my biology teacher. He sort of mutters about certain things that puzzle biologists about evolution. Although ID is far too extreme, looked upon as an equal to Greek or Roman Mythology. When to me it's just the alternative to a dark world of survival, where love and life is completely lost.

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Social Darwinism enjoyed widespread popularity in some European circles, particularly among ruling elites during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. During this period the global recession of the 1870s encouraged a view of the world which saw societies or nations in competition with one another for survival in a hostile world. This attitude encouraged increasing militarization and the division of the world into colonial spheres of influence. The interpretation of social Darwinism of the time emphasized competition between species and races rather than cooperation.

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we could also begin teaching the flat earth "theory" as an alternative to the somewhat spherical earth fact.

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Truly original.

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We could also teach the fake moon landing conspiracy theory as an alternative historical explanation for the apollo program.

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This was a step back from schraf's post, next time don't bother.

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Social Darwinism enjoyed widespread popularity in some European circles, particularly among ruling elites during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. During this period the global recession of the 1870s encouraged a view of the world which saw societies or nations in competition with one another for survival in a hostile world. This attitude encouraged increasing militarization and the division of the world into colonial spheres of influence. The interpretation of social Darwinism of the time emphasized competition between species and races rather than cooperation.

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Brilliant people have been suckered right down through the ages, and I know three people personally who were brilliant and yet somehow got suckered by ID theory.

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This "machine" seems to be sucking people into evolution, look at the majority of public schools.You are right though, although the science of ID really is the last thing on my mind. I don't like this mentality that is given off of evolution, I don't want to be just another pawn in the animal kingdom for nature's wrath. I know of no real evidence scientifically for ID. That doesn't bother me.

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Social Darwinism enjoyed widespread popularity in some European circles, particularly among ruling elites during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. During this period the global recession of the 1870s encouraged a view of the world which saw societies or nations in competition with one another for survival in a hostile world. This attitude encouraged increasing militarization and the division of the world into colonial spheres of influence. The interpretation of social Darwinism of the time emphasized competition between species and races rather than cooperation.

Thing is, it was already addressed, he was just having fun. Saying stuff i heard when I first came hereThis message has been edited by prophex, 03-25-2005 07:30 PM

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Social Darwinism enjoyed widespread popularity in some European circles, particularly among ruling elites during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. During this period the global recession of the 1870s encouraged a view of the world which saw societies or nations in competition with one another for survival in a hostile world. This attitude encouraged increasing militarization and the division of the world into colonial spheres of influence. The interpretation of social Darwinism of the time emphasized competition between species and races rather than cooperation.

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I've been to public schools. What machine?

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The machine that you (or commike) mentioned in the post i replied to.

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Are you seriously suggesting that a science teacher telling students that the current best scientific model of species diversity is the ToE is some wort of lie? Propaganda?

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I realize the evidence is in evolution, but I also realize that people accept it as truth without question. In any situation this really isn't good.

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If the ToE is not the best current model, what is?

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A better model would be one that does not give humans ideas of survival, working against, and trying to get on top of one another. Lives of competition.

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Personally I'd rather be a pawn in the animal kingdom, than a pawn for a bunch of ignorant rich guys trying to take my money by telling me comfortable lies.

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Being a pawn sucks. The rich guys tell me to take part in the american dream, competing for a home and a nice family. The one creationist I met was poor, and sought truth. Although his arguments were sometimes flawed.

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Social Darwinism enjoyed widespread popularity in some European circles, particularly among ruling elites during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. During this period the global recession of the 1870s encouraged a view of the world which saw societies or nations in competition with one another for survival in a hostile world. This attitude encouraged increasing militarization and the division of the world into colonial spheres of influence. The interpretation of social Darwinism of the time emphasized competition between species and races rather than cooperation.

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Ahem... Moses commited genocide, the Jews commited genocide, the Xians commited genocide, the Muslims have to some extent attempted genocidal purges. The current "culture war" is a concept developed by and propagated by fundementalist Xians, because as they put it the Xian worldview is in danger (in competition with others) and Xians must fight to stay on top of other beliefs.

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Humans are corrupt.Isolating religious groups from this competition really doesn't mean much to me, people will always have this, unless they can somehow can seperate from this world of materialistic competition. That is our need.

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The ToE doesn't say anything about social "darwinism" which is made be people quite ignorant of what the ToE is about. Most of evolution appears to be driven by environmental changes, or entities moving into new environments, not how best to kill and dominate each other. It just so happens that the ranks of better adapted creatures will thrive.

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I respect it as a science, but when applied to humans it becomes very ugly.Man doesn't have to be a part of this mess.This message has been edited by prophex, 03-30-2005 11:36 AMThis message has been edited by prophex, 03-30-2005 11:37 AM

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Social Darwinism enjoyed widespread popularity in some European circles, particularly among ruling elites during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. During this period the global recession of the 1870s encouraged a view of the world which saw societies or nations in competition with one another for survival in a hostile world. This attitude encouraged increasing militarization and the division of the world into colonial spheres of influence. The interpretation of social Darwinism of the time emphasized competition between species and races rather than cooperation.

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What you are suggesting is that it's no big deal that we teach ID in schools, which has no scientific evidence to support it. This is just the same as teaching the idea that the Holocaust didn't happen as a valid alternate theory, even though there is no evidence to support it.

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Take ID as an idea, rather than proven science. While you need the evidence, all I want is the idea as an alternative, I believe that this might spark some people to re-think what their teachers tell them with great faith that it is truth. Maybe it wouldn't fit in a classroom dedicated to science, rather a philosophical disscussion after school. Wherever it wouldn't be as bad as Lenny might like to tell you.

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That is the fault of the educational system and programs that emphasize test results.

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High School.

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OK, then do you agree that the idea that the Holocaust never happened should be presented as a valid alternative to mainstream WWII history?

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I don't agree with censorship, with evolution and creation, noone really knows, nothing to hide.

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Social Darwinism enjoyed widespread popularity in some European circles, particularly among ruling elites during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. During this period the global recession of the 1870s encouraged a view of the world which saw societies or nations in competition with one another for survival in a hostile world. This attitude encouraged increasing militarization and the division of the world into colonial spheres of influence. The interpretation of social Darwinism of the time emphasized competition between species and races rather than cooperation.

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The genocide commited at Canaan was material and ideologically driven.

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Ideologically I see, but material? How?

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Thanks for giving me the oppurtunity to leech knowledge off of all you guys.

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The very existance of communism demonstrates an atheistic criticism of capitalistic profit for its own sake.

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Marx's acceptance of this notion of materialist dialectics which rejected Hegel's idealism was greatly influenced by Ludwig Feuerbach. In The Essence of Christianity, Feuerbach argued that God is really a creation of man and that the qualities people attribute to God are really qualities of humanity.

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-wikipediaYes, you're right. Had to look it up.

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Don't confuse atheism with greed, or theism with nobility.

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I don't understand, sorry but could you explain this? I'm not seeing where I said something to that effect.

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Thanks for giving me the oppurtunity to leech knowledge off of all you guys.

I emailed your friend Lenny on my newly acquired GMAIL account and this is what he said, I sent him more or less my first reply to you here.

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Sorry for the form letter----I get so many emails from
fundamentalist kooks that it's impossible for me to
reply individually to all of them.

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I don't "debate" in private email. I prefer to say
everything in public where everyone can see. If
you think you have something scientific to say,
then join us at the DebunkCreation email list --
sign up at

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http://www.groups.yahoo.com/groups/DebunkCreation

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and say it. There are a number of professional
scientists there (most of them Christians) who
would be more than happy to join me in demonstrating
right there, in front of the whole world, how silly
and stupid all of the creationist anti-evolution
"arguments" are.

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If, on the other hand, all you want to do is preach
at me, don't bother. I am an ordained minister, and
I am not even remotely interested in listening to
any of your religious opinions.

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If I wasn't a google convert I probably would check it out, but I just told him evc is better. He warded me off with this reply.

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Thanks for giving me the oppurtunity to leech knowledge off of all you guys.