|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Organized Religion & personal Spirituality | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
berberry Inactive Member |
holmes writes me:
quote: Your metaphor isn't quite perfect since pressure cookers don't always warp things, but the point is taken. That's an excellent way of putting it. I agree that the non-stop coverage and adulation of the pope, like the coverage of Reagan last year, is very much like a pressure cooker, only one with a clogged escape valve. Keep America Safe AND Free!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Silent H Member (Idle past 5847 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
If you break the speed limit and there is no one around, is it really a crime?
If you break the speed limit and there is no one around but a camera which catches your speed an license plate number, is it a crime?
it would be necessary to do something to protect those victims. Nitpicking... I think you meant to say prevent people from becoming victims, not protect the victims. The latter is usually about victims rights. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
berberry Inactive Member |
quote: Reminds me of the question "if a man says something in a forest, but no woman is around to hear him, is he still wrong?"
quote: Yes, that's what I meant. Thank you. Keep America Safe AND Free!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
IANAT Inactive Member |
An Islamic state, by definition, would preclude practicing other religions in peace. Not true. You have been brainwashed by propaganda and think that because one or two Islamic states have been overzealous, then all are and in future all would be so. Non-Muslims can practice their religion at home in peace without interference. They do this now.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Non-Muslims can practice their religion at home in peace without interference. They do this now. They must be able to do so in public as well. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
IANAT Inactive Member |
schrafinater writes: Can you tell me how, under an Islamic government, I would have more personal freedom and control over my life, than I do now? That would not be the point of an Islamic "government" as you put it. The point is to have a way of life that supports and encourages the chosen faith, and not have the freedoms of infidels tempt the faithful with drugs, porn, promoting homosexuality, and other behaviour forbidden by the Quaran. An Islamic woman is more concerned about how Allah thinks of her behaviour than self-centered desires.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2198 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Can you tell me how, under an Islamic government, I would have more personal freedom and control over my life, than I do now? quote: But Islam is not my chosen faith. I don't have a chosen faith at all, so being under an Islamic government would, by definition, undermine my chosen non-faith, my chosen way of life. ...so, less freedom for me.
quote: ...so, you are saying that I would be less free under an Islamic state, then, correct? I would not be free to enjoy a glass of wine with dinner, or view a museum exhibit of Botticelli's work, for example, correct?
quote: But I am not an Islamic woman. ...and why do there seem to be so many different people claiming to speak for Allah with regards to how women should behave? Which one is correct?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
promoting homosexuality Who do you believe is "promoting homosexuality"? Since the scientific consensus is that sexual orientation is determined at birth, and certainly not by choice, what would be the point in "promoting" it? That would be like promoting "being black" or "being a woman." I mean, we should certainly support people who are those things, but there's not much point in promoting something you have no choice in being, is there?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Silent H Member (Idle past 5847 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
The point is to have a way of life that supports and encourages the chosen faith, and not have the freedoms of infidels tempt the faithful with drugs, porn, promoting homosexuality, and other behaviour forbidden by the Quaran. If the people are not free to choose to practice that way of life, and instead are obligate under law to practice it, then isn't that a lack of faith in the power of your religion? In any case it certainly undercuts your arguments about freedom of religion under a religious gov't. Of course I would still like to see you address the reply I wrote earlier which pointed out you do not speak for "Islam" or what an "Islamic government" would be like. Let's say one gets installed... whose version of Islam will be set into law, and why?
An Islamic woman is more concerned about how Allah thinks of her behaviour than self-centered desires. Yes, and some believe Allah cares whether her head and face are covered and some do not. Which ones get legal power? They are both Islamic. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
IANAT Inactive Member |
schrafinator writes:
You can do this in Saudi Arabia in an American compound, but this would not be appropriate in public, because you would be setting an example of putting materialistic pleasures above obedience of the Quran. A woman who faithfully follows the teachings would not want to do as you say. That is not a restriction of freedom. It is a proper way of life. I would not be free to enjoy a glass of wine with dinner, or view a museum exhibit of Botticelli's work, for example, correct? I understand that you do not understand. You probably think the same thought about me.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
IANAT Inactive Member |
Whether homosexuality is inherited, or a change occurs in childhood, or whatever does not matter. There are behaviours that are forbidden. Science may find out that some people are born with a tendency towards murder, but surely you don't advocate freedom to murder?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
There are behaviours that are forbidden. Forbidden by whom? And for what reason? Who gets hurt by two women having sex?
Science may find out that some people are born with a tendency towards murder, but surely you don't advocate freedom to murder? Surely you're not saying that two women having sex with each other is as bad an act as murder, which results in the end of a human life? That's pretty dumb.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
A woman who faithfully follows the teachings would not want to do as you say. That is not a restriction of freedom. Its certainly a restriction of your freedom to disagree with what it means to "faithfully follow the teachings." I guess I don't understand. Are you just playing the devil's advocate, or actually advocating for Muslim theocracy?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
IANAT Inactive Member |
holmes writes: If the people are not free to choose to practice that way of life, and instead are obligate under law to practice it, then isn't that a lack of faith in the power of your religion? No. And there is no law that orders anyone to practice a religion in an Islamic state. The law simply reinforces desired conditions and behaviours that the Quran teaches.
Of course I would still like to see you address the reply I wrote earlier which pointed out you do not speak for "Islam" or what an "Islamic government" would be like. Let's say one gets installed... whose version of Islam will be set into law, and why? some believe Allah cares whether her head and face are covered and some do not. Which ones get legal power? They are both Islamic. Sorry, but I do not want to take the time to explain my understanding of how clerics in different countries decide how to rule in those countries. The concept is to "strive" to please Allah. An Islamic government will help, not hinder, this striving. Why make striving more difficult? This is how we wish to live.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
No. And there is no law that orders anyone to practice a religion in an Islamic state. The law simply reinforces desired conditions and behaviours that the Quran teaches. How is that different? I mean, if you were going to make a law that said "you have to do these things that this religion states", and that religion was based on the Quran, wouldn't this be exactly what you would wind up with? A set of laws that mandated behaviors that the Quran teaches? What you're describing is literally what it would mean to have a government mandate a certain religion.
This is how we wish to live. Well, no, it's not. If it was about how you wished to live, you would just live that way, and you wouldn't need laws mandating it. What this is about is how you wish others to live. Lets call a spade a spade, ok? This message has been edited by crashfrog, 04-10-2005 11:39 AM
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024