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Author Topic:   Organized Religion & personal Spirituality
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 130 (198340)
04-11-2005 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Phat
04-11-2005 1:15 PM


Re: upside down
So tell us, young Skywalker...what does hold sway over your decisions? What authority DO you recognize?
As far as moral authority goes? My own. Why do you ask?

"You can't expect him to be answering your prayers when he's not real, can you? That's like writing to the characters of a soap opera and expecting a reply, Mr. Silly Sausage!"
-Jane Christie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Phat, posted 04-11-2005 1:15 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 04-11-2005 3:46 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 77 of 130 (198350)
04-11-2005 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Dan Carroll
04-11-2005 3:14 PM


Re: upside down
Dans clever alias writes:
As far as moral authority goes? My own. Why do you ask?
I was just checking who was gonna be responsible for the bill when you check out of here, thats all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-11-2005 3:14 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-11-2005 3:53 PM Phat has replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 130 (198353)
04-11-2005 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Phat
04-11-2005 3:46 PM


Re: upside down
I was just checking who was gonna be responsible for the bill when you check out of here, thats all.
I'm a bit busy for a round of dueling cryptic posts. If you're driving towards a point, then wake me when we get there.

"You can't expect him to be answering your prayers when he's not real, can you? That's like writing to the characters of a soap opera and expecting a reply, Mr. Silly Sausage!"
-Jane Christie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 04-11-2005 3:46 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 04-11-2005 4:04 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 79 of 130 (198355)
04-11-2005 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Dan Carroll
04-11-2005 3:53 PM


Designated Driver
Dan writes:
If you're driving towards a point, then wake me when we get there.
And to think that you are letting someone else drive?!
That WAS my whole point. Now go back to sleep.
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 04-11-2005 01:05 PM

Truth is stranger than fiction because we have made fiction to suit ourselves.
-- G.K. Chesterson
It ain't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so.
-- Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-11-2005 3:53 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by jar, posted 04-11-2005 4:17 PM Phat has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 80 of 130 (198359)
04-11-2005 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Phat
04-11-2005 4:04 PM


When I die ...
I want to die like my Grandfather, peacefully in my sleep, and not screaming in terror like the guy in the passenger's seat.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 04-11-2005 4:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Phat, posted 04-11-2005 6:12 PM jar has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 81 of 130 (198378)
04-11-2005 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by jar
04-11-2005 4:17 PM


Before I wake.....
Well, Gramps was asleep in the boat just like Jesus!
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 04-12-2005 12:25 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by jar, posted 04-11-2005 4:17 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Philip, posted 04-11-2005 7:36 PM Phat has not replied

Philip
Member (Idle past 4722 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 82 of 130 (198384)
04-11-2005 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Phat
04-11-2005 6:12 PM


I Praise The Lord....
I wonder if Easter (the Saxon moon god Ashtoreth (of Baal) ... AKA female "Allah") didn't play on anyone here this year.
Could be wrong, but I bet many of you evangies and evos toyed somewhat with her again this year ... if not for the kids, blah, blah.
Who keeps this religious crap around anyway? Public schools still toy with it! Personal spirituality, not.
This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 04-12-2005 12:26 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Phat, posted 04-11-2005 6:12 PM Phat has not replied

StormWolfx2x
Inactive Member


Message 83 of 130 (198444)
04-12-2005 3:20 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by IANAT
04-10-2005 8:55 AM


My Soul To Take!
im gonna stand up for schraf for a second here, even though Im sure she will say the same thing when she responds.
"You can do this in Saudi Arabia in an American compound, but this would not be appropriate in public, because you would be setting an example of putting materialistic pleasures above obedience of the Quran."
She has said numerous times that she is not an Islamic woman, so in an Islamic state with true freedom of religion, if her religion (or lack thereof) allowed her to drink in public places then doing so would okay, not allowing her to drink would violate her right to practice her religion in peace.
"A woman who faithfully follows the teachings would not want to do as you say. That is not a restriction of freedom. It is a proper way of life."
True, a woman who faithfully follows the teachings of Quran would not want to do as she says, BUT SHE is NOT ISLAMIC, if you force her to follow religious standards you ARE restricting her freedom, and saying your religious veiws are proper while hers are not is religious oppression.
"I understand that you do not understand. You probably think the same thought about me."
I know you don't understand what she is saying becuase you are taking what she says and applying it to an Islamic woman, you have to do this because if you weren't applying it to an Islamic woman, you would be contradicting yourself.
This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 04-12-2005 12:26 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by IANAT, posted 04-10-2005 8:55 AM IANAT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 04-12-2005 3:28 AM StormWolfx2x has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 84 of 130 (198445)
04-12-2005 3:28 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by StormWolfx2x
04-12-2005 3:20 AM


Back To The Opening Topic...
The truth is that we do not need religion to develop spiritually.
Religion is not the goal; it is just a tool. Many people find it
difficult to accept, but in fact religion is a human invention.
Spirituality on the other hand is a universal, godly existence
that is the core of life and not at its edge.
True or Not?
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 04-12-2005 03:25 AM

"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives."-- Anne Dillard
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."
Elbert Hubbard

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by StormWolfx2x, posted 04-12-2005 3:20 AM StormWolfx2x has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by StormWolfx2x, posted 04-12-2005 5:13 AM Phat has replied

StormWolfx2x
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 130 (198447)
04-12-2005 3:59 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by IANAT
04-10-2005 12:53 PM


Re: upside down
IANAT writes:
I would say that I (and most Muslims) do not want a "separation of church and state" in Islamic countries.
How ridiculously convenient, Islamic people in Islamic countries want their governing powers to be Islamic. Not having this separation is fine for the people who are in power, but would these same Muslims still not want separation of church and state when they live in is controlled by a non Islamic church? When the church in control of your state tells you that you have to practice their religion you can get back to me on how great not having a separation of church and state is.
IANAT writes:
Islam is a way of life. How can you have separate authorities that might have conflicts to the Quran? You only need one authority.
We do separate authorities in the U.S., its called checks and balances, and it’s a great way to keep tyrants from having absolute power, what would your one authority do when a person rises to the top, changes hats, and then no one has the power to oppose them?
IANAT writes:
With the western idea of separation, you bring homosexuals "out of the closet" (to use an American phrase) and put your religious believers in the closet with your government laws. This is upside down, in our view.
You said earlier that
IANAT writes:
You can do this in Saudi Arabia in an American compound, but this would not be appropriate in public, because you would be setting an example of putting materialistic pleasures above obedience of the Quran.
You support forcing non-Muslims into American compounds!?!?! (I guess since its American they would then actually enjoy a level of freedom) Who’s shoving who into a closet?
IANAT writes:
It is difficult in this country to work and yet practice Islam with our prayer schedule. That is not a problem in an Islamic state.
If you think it’s difficult in a country that has a separation of church and state, imagine how hard it would be in a country that did not have separation and was not Islamic.
IANAT writes:
I feel that I am starting to go in circles trying to explain this concept of an Islamic state, so I think I will give the subject a rest.
When you directly contradict yourself, you do tend to go in circles.
Note from Admin: Reminding you that the topic is organized religion and personal spirituality. Try not to get political. Thanks. PB
This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 04-12-2005 03:29 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by IANAT, posted 04-10-2005 12:53 PM IANAT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by contracycle, posted 04-12-2005 6:12 AM StormWolfx2x has not replied
 Message 88 by contracycle, posted 04-12-2005 6:12 AM StormWolfx2x has not replied

StormWolfx2x
Inactive Member


Message 86 of 130 (198455)
04-12-2005 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Phat
04-12-2005 3:28 AM


Re: Back To The Opening Topic...
"The truth is that we do not need religion to develop spiritually."
Agreed.
"Religion is not the goal; it is just a tool."
If you are a person that needs relgion to achive spirtuality than sure, I'd contest though that religion is a poor tool for achiving sprituality as it is to contristing and does not allow enough spritual freedom, at least for me.
"Many people find it difficult to accept, but in fact religion is a human invention."
Im sure of that, and I would also add that God is a human invention.
"Spirituality on the other hand is a universal, godly existence
that is the core of life and not at its edge."
To me (changed words capitalized)-
Spirituality on the other hand is THE universal, HUMAN existence
that is the core of life and not at its edge.
"BTW StormKingx2x...Is not Saudi Arabia a Theocracy?"
its Stormwolf ;P. and can you please rephrase this and quote something I said that this was a response to, I just want to be completely clear as to what your trying to ask before I respond

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 04-12-2005 3:28 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 04-12-2005 6:16 AM StormWolfx2x has replied

contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 130 (198470)
04-12-2005 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by StormWolfx2x
04-12-2005 3:59 AM


Re: upside down
quote:
We do separate authorities in the U.S., its called checks and balances, and it’s a great way to keep tyrants from having absolute power, what would your one authority do when a person rises to the top, changes hats, and then no one has the power to oppose them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by StormWolfx2x, posted 04-12-2005 3:59 AM StormWolfx2x has not replied

contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 130 (198471)
04-12-2005 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by StormWolfx2x
04-12-2005 3:59 AM


Re: upside down
quote:
We do separate authorities in the U.S., its called checks and balances, and it’s a great way to keep tyrants from having absolute power, what would your one authority do when a person rises to the top, changes hats, and then no one has the power to oppose them?
What are you going tyo do about your homicidal liar president?
Its pointless having checks and balances when you don't exercise them.
-
Frankly this thread should just be closed, and I ask the administratotors to do so. It is becomeing a venue for nothing more than Islamaphobic ranting of the same kind of self-righteous hysteria that lead to the recent invasion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by StormWolfx2x, posted 04-12-2005 3:59 AM StormWolfx2x has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by AdminPhat, posted 04-12-2005 6:23 AM contracycle has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 89 of 130 (198472)
04-12-2005 6:16 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by StormWolfx2x
04-12-2005 5:13 AM


Re: Back To The Opening Topic...
Sure,buddy...except that you and I disagree BIG time on God being a human invention. While you are suggesting that Man imagined God, I will staunchly maintain and defend that God created us and foreknew all of us way way before we were even capable of imagining Him.
I have witnessed the supernatural in action, and I have been at countless Bible studies and both formal and informal times where the presence of God was known. You won't convince me that God is merely an invention of the human mind. I like and respect human achievment, but I will never humanize the Creator while lifting up human wisdom.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by StormWolfx2x, posted 04-12-2005 5:13 AM StormWolfx2x has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by StormWolfx2x, posted 04-12-2005 1:48 PM Phat has not replied

AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 130 (198474)
04-12-2005 6:23 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by contracycle
04-12-2005 6:12 AM


Focus Factors
contra writes:
Frankly this thread should just be closed, and I ask the administratotors to do so. It is becomeing a venue for nothing more than Islamaphobic ranting of the same kind of self-righteous hysteria that lead to the recent invasion.
The thread is about Spirituality and NOT politics, Contra. We have "venues" in this country. They are called Freedom of Speech. You can choose to participate or ignore the topic.
EVERYONE: Lets Keep Focus on Spirituality and Organized Religion---NOT Politics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by contracycle, posted 04-12-2005 6:12 AM contracycle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by contracycle, posted 04-12-2005 6:58 AM AdminPhat has not replied

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