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Author | Topic: Existence of Demons (and Angels) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: It's been put to the test over and over. Just not the kind of silly test you would dream up.
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mikehager Member (Idle past 6494 days) Posts: 534 Joined: |
...that "long research" has done nothing but confirm what you started out believing, begging the question. That is not the case. I started out christian and it was the interest in mythology, the "long research" that showed me the error in my thinking. The pronouncements may sound dogmatic to someone who operates on that basis continually, but that is not the case.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Just not the kind of silly test you would dream up. That is, one that could accurately distinguish between outcomes.
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mikehager Member (Idle past 6494 days) Posts: 534 Joined: |
Then we are left with the fact that you believe only those that agree with you, regardless of the fact that they have arrived at their ideas in exactly the same way you arrived at yours. How reasonable is that?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: Hm, another victim of the secularist educational nightmare. Well, what can I say. You want to start a thread to discuss the supposed truths you learned in your study of mythology?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: That would be nice, but so far I haven't seen you show much grasp of what kind of test that would be.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
That would be nice, but so far I haven't seen you show much grasp of what kind of test that would be. No, you have. But like pretty much every discussion with you, we've hit the point where you're convinced that any test in which there's even a possibility that your religious dogma wouldn't pass is hopelessly biased against Christianity. Well, great. I mean, that's exactly how someone who would want you to believe a foolish fairy tale would want you to think. What you have is a position called "unassailiable ignorance." You've successfully closed your mind, via circular reasoning (and here's a hint, any time you're saying that "it won't make sense to you until you believe in it", you're reasoning circularly), to any possibility that you might be wrong. Congratulations. There's absolutely no reasoning with you because you've set your position absolutely beyond reason. This message has been edited by crashfrog, 04-18-2005 02:10 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Nonsense. Your post applies to yourself and others here though.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Nonsense. Oh? Well, then you should have no trouble answering this question: What evidence would convince you that your faith was misplaced, and that what you believed is wrong? You ask me that about evolution, or even atheism, and I'll give you an answer. Because I hold those positions rationally, I hold them tentatively, and therefore I have falsifiability conditions. Do you? If there's no evidence I could show you that would convince you your faith was misplaced, then the answer is "no", and your position is not rational. You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't arrive at reasonably.
Your post applies to yourself and others here though. "I know you are but what am I" may have cut it in the 3rd grade, Faith, but it doesn't constitute much of an argument around here.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: Well, be precise here. There may be many ASPECTS of my faith that I could find to be wrong as I don't claim to be omniscient, but there is no evidence that could disprove my basic belief in the God of the Bible, just as there is no evidence that could disprove to you the reality of your own body and mind and personality and the reality of other human beings and your interactions with them. Are you prepared to disbelieve the whole web of memories you have of communications with people over your life, family, friends? Certainly some particular memories may be wrong, that happens all the time, but I'm trying to get hold of the whole picture here. It's not like that really but I can't think of anything analogous, just looking for things you know are real but can't prove, and if you could disprove them it would destroy your ability to function. If you could talk yourself out of believing all those things, even what you had for lunch -- also something very difficult to prove once the lunch is gone -- you would induce in yourself something akin to a lobotomy. It's like that.
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mikehager Member (Idle past 6494 days) Posts: 534 Joined: |
There's no reason, really. Another "Faith denies reason" thread is redundant.
I would likely reply if you started one, but I see little future in it.
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mikehager Member (Idle past 6494 days) Posts: 534 Joined: |
... there is no evidence that could disprove my basic belief in the God of the Bible So you admit that your beliefs are entirely dogmatic and unreasonable? You likely won't admit it, but you have clearly shown that the are.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
just as there is no evidence that could disprove to you the reality of your own body and mind and personality and the reality of other human beings and your interactions with them. The problem is that there's no evidence that proves those things, either. I hold those positions, but I do so tentatively.
Are you prepared to disbelieve the whole web of memories you have of communications with people over your life, family, friends? Yes. Does that shock you?
If you could talk yourself out of believing all those things, even what you had for lunch -- also something very difficult to prove once the lunch is gone -- you would induce in yourself something akin to a lobotomy. What you would induce would be a committment to holding positions only tentatively and not dogmatically. Not everybody's like you, Faith. Not all of us are so paralyzed by the idea of a little uncertainty about even the things we think we're sure about that we have to cling to dogma and turn our brains off. Your universe isn't going to disappear if you look at it askance. I'm prepared to deal with a little doubt about everything. But the mere suggestion of doubt sends you running for your Biblical comfort blanket. Where do people get this pathological fear of uncertainty?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
So you admit that your beliefs are entirely dogmatic and unreasonable? You likely won't admit it, but you have clearly shown that the are.
====== In exactly the same sense your belief in your closest relationships is dogmatic and unreasonable.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Not everybody's like you, Faith. Not all of us are so paralyzed by the idea of a little uncertainty about even the things we think we're sure about that we have to cling to dogma and turn our brains off.
You don't get it. I don't HAVE any uncertainty. There is NOTHING that could bring it about. Same as you don't have any about the things in your own life that are closest to you that you can't prove. It would take the destruction of your mind to "disprove" them.
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