Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Validity of differing eyewitness accounts in religious texts
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6872 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 196 of 305 (203023)
04-27-2005 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Checkmate
04-27-2005 1:06 PM


Re: Validity of differing eyewitness accounts in religious texts
quote:
The assertions made in your post are mute and proves nothing, beside that you have tried to judge the Qur'aan with Biblical yardstick. While the Bible can't even reach the perfectness of the Qur'aan, which is the truly Divine revealed word of Allaah.
Would that be allah as in hubal or Jehovah God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Checkmate, posted 04-27-2005 1:06 PM Checkmate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Primordial Egg, posted 04-27-2005 1:44 PM PecosGeorge has replied
 Message 214 by Checkmate, posted 04-28-2005 10:22 AM PecosGeorge has not replied

Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 197 of 305 (203025)
04-27-2005 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by PecosGeorge
04-27-2005 1:34 PM


Re: Validity of differing eyewitness accounts in religious texts
PecosGeorge - I'm assuming you don't know this, but probably one of the greatest insults you can hurl at a Muslim is to suggest that his / her religion has its roots based in polytheism. Was that really necessary in a thread about the validity of eye-witness accounts?
Incidentally, when the Bible is translated in Arabic, the word "God" is translated as "Allah".
PE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by PecosGeorge, posted 04-27-2005 1:34 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by PecosGeorge, posted 04-27-2005 4:03 PM Primordial Egg has not replied
 Message 200 by Faith, posted 04-27-2005 6:52 PM Primordial Egg has replied

PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6872 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 198 of 305 (203061)
04-27-2005 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by Primordial Egg
04-27-2005 1:44 PM


Re: Validity of differing eyewitness accounts in religious texts
quote:
PecosGeorge - I'm assuming you don't know this, but probably one of the greatest insults you can hurl at a Muslim is to suggest that his / her religion has its roots based in polytheism. Was that really necessary in a thread about the validity of eye-witness accounts?
Incidentally, when the Bible is translated in Arabic, the word "God" is translated as "Allah".

Do NOT! respond to this post.

Pointless comment removed by AdminJar
I'd like to know the answer. Preferrably in fewer than three thousand words.
This message has been edited by AdminJar, 04-27-2005 03:59 PM

Pascal's Wager......nice try.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Primordial Egg, posted 04-27-2005 1:44 PM Primordial Egg has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by AdminJar, posted 04-27-2005 4:42 PM PecosGeorge has not replied

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 199 of 305 (203080)
04-27-2005 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by PecosGeorge
04-27-2005 4:03 PM


Re: Validity of differing eyewitness accounts in religious texts
Your last post was uncalled for. Cut it out!

New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
General discussion of moderation procedures
Thread Reopen Requests
Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC and Assistance w/ Forum Formatting

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by PecosGeorge, posted 04-27-2005 4:03 PM PecosGeorge has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 200 of 305 (203128)
04-27-2005 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by Primordial Egg
04-27-2005 1:44 PM


God's name.
Incidentally, when the Bible is translated in Arabic, the word "God" is translated as "Allah".
So explain why in English the word "Allah" is not translated as "God."
Checkmate has made it clear. Allah is a NAME for God, although it is so often claimed that it is merely the Arabic term for God.
As a NAME for God it contradicts the Name God gives for Himself in the Bible, YHWH. They are certainly not the same Being if they have two different names.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Primordial Egg, posted 04-27-2005 1:44 PM Primordial Egg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Primordial Egg, posted 04-27-2005 8:33 PM Faith has replied

Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 201 of 305 (203154)
04-27-2005 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Faith
04-27-2005 6:52 PM


God's name.
So explain why in English the word "Allah" is not translated as "God."
My guess is that it has something to do with the fact that in Islamic societies the word "Allah" is used practically every other sentence. This isn't just in Arabic, but in all the Islamic languages there are frequent references to Allah as in insha'allah (God willing), alhamdolillah (God be praised) - it would be churlish when it came to translating the Quran to substitute God for Allah.
Although, that said, "Allah" is sometimes translated to "God", as I'm sure your extensive reading of some of the Quran taught you. If we take as an example the fist line of the Kalema:
La illaha ill allah
This translates as: "There is no God but Allah" - but the word Allah is used twice in the Arabic! So one of the "Allah"s has been translated as God = this is because Arabic doesn't have any words for God other than "Allah"
Checkmate has made it clear. Allah is a NAME for God, although it is so often claimed that it is merely the Arabic term for God.
Why can't it be both? If memory serves, Islam has 99 different names for God (none of them YHWH). Aren't there several names for God in the Jewish faith as well?
As a NAME for God it contradicts the Name God gives for Himself in the Bible, YHWH.
So the Bible is plain wrong in this case as it contradicts the Quran....... or should that be the other way around? How to tell? How to tell? (brings us nicely back to the subject )
They are certainly not the same Being if they have two different names.
I bet you've got two different names.
Muslims say that they worship the same God as Jews and Christians. Many Jews and Christians claim that this isn't true. As far as I'm concerned you're all talking about some superbeing who created the Universe, Adam as the first man, heaven and hell and all that guff. The only differences seem to be in the way that you guys all relate to him. If he exists, he's hardly going to worry about what humans call him - not as if he has to fill out a tax return. All much of a muchness if you ask me.
You seem to have your plate full which is why I stopped discussing stuff with you earlier. I'm only here intermittently at best, so no biggie if you don't respond to this to concentrate on your other conversations.
PE
PS Apologies to Checkmate if I've got any of the muslim angle wrong - I was only stepping in to prevent what looked like unfair goading of a newbie (not by Faith).
This message has been edited by Primordial Egg, 04-27-2005 08:38 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Faith, posted 04-27-2005 6:52 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Faith, posted 04-27-2005 9:03 PM Primordial Egg has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 202 of 305 (203166)
04-27-2005 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by Primordial Egg
04-27-2005 8:33 PM


Re: God's name.
In English the word for God is "God." To continue to use the word "Allah" which to a Christian or Jew is not the name of God, is simply to be addressing an alien deity, not God. Which is fine, because that's what Allah is.
Checkmate has made it clear. Allah is a NAME for God, although it is so often claimed that it is merely the Arabic term for God.
quote:
Why can't it be both? If memory serves, Islam has 99 different names for God (none of them YHWH). Aren't there several names for God in the Jewish faith as well?
There are many names that are titles for God in the OT, descriptions of His attributes, but He has only one Name, and it is His ONLY Name. Allah is not it. They try to claim that "Allah" is somehow related to the Hebrew "Elohim" which is a generic name for God in the Hebrew scriptures but there is no etymological connection. Muslims get outraged if you point out that Allah is the former name of a minor deity, the Moon God, one of hundreds represented at Mecca before Mohammed eliminated all the rest and promoted Allah, but it's the truth. The symbol of Islam is the Moon. That's no accident.
As a NAME for God it contradicts the Name God gives for Himself in the Bible, YHWH.
quote:
So the Bible is plain wrong in this case as it contradicts the Quran....... or should that be the other way around? How to tell? How to tell? (brings us nicely back to the subject )
If you have any interest in the truth, telling the difference is not at all hard, though it may take wrenching your mental set out of the prejudice that all religions are the same. The way you tell is by starting with the fact that the Hebrew scriptures predate the Koran by 2000 years, and that the Koran usurps many passages from those scriptures and from the NT scriptures as well, and changes them completely to say entirely different things, such as that Ishmael and not Isaac was the chosen heir of Abraham, all catering to Arab prejudices in direct falsification of the Hebrew scriptures. They do the same with the Christian scriptures about Jesus and Mary.
They are certainly not the same Being if they have two different names.
quote:
I bet you've got two different names.
Oh aren't you clever.
Muslims say that they worship the same God as Jews and Christians. Many Jews and Christians claim that this isn't true.
The Muslims are deceived.
As far as I'm concerned you're all talking about some superbeing who created the Universe, Adam as the first man, heaven and hell and all that guff. The only differences seem to be in the way that you guys all relate to him. If he exists, he's hardly going to worry about what humans call him - not as if he has to fill out a tax return. All much of a muchness if you ask me.
God didn't ask your opinion -- or mine. He is the one who determines His own name, and it is not Allah.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Primordial Egg, posted 04-27-2005 8:33 PM Primordial Egg has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by jar, posted 04-27-2005 9:22 PM Faith has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 203 of 305 (203173)
04-27-2005 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by Faith
04-27-2005 9:03 PM


Re: God's name.
Like GOD gives a Damn what you call him. Is there a more ridiculous argument that anyone come up with? I know I stay awake at night worrying about whether some slime mold calls me Jay, Jim or James.
ROTFLMAO.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Faith, posted 04-27-2005 9:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 04-27-2005 9:33 PM jar has replied
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 04-27-2005 9:56 PM jar has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 204 of 305 (203174)
04-27-2005 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by jar
04-27-2005 9:22 PM


Re: God's name.
Religious Jews regard the Name of God as so sacred they will not even pronounce it or write it but you don't mind making light of it.
And I'm sure you're wrong that you wouldn't mind being called by a name that is not your own, especially one that demeans your character.
{EDIT: Or let me put it this way, you can call on God by a false name all you like, but He isn't going to hear it because it isn't His name.
This message has been edited by Faith, 04-27-2005 09:34 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by jar, posted 04-27-2005 9:22 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by jar, posted 04-27-2005 10:02 PM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 205 of 305 (203180)
04-27-2005 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by jar
04-27-2005 9:22 PM


God takes His Name very seriously
Lev 20:3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.
Lev 22:2 Speak unto Aaron and to his sons, that they separate themselves from the holy things of the children of Israel, and that they profane not my holy name [in those things] which they hallow unto me: I [am] the LORD.
Lev 22:32 Neither shall ye profane my holy name; but I will be hallowed among the children of Israel: I [am] the LORD which hallow you,
1Ch 16:10 Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the LORD.
1Ch 16:35 And say ye, Save us, O God of our salvation, and gather us together, and deliver us from the heathen, that we may give thanks to thy holy name, [and] glory in thy praise.
1Ch 29:16 O LORD our God, all this store that we have prepared to build thee an house for thine holy name [cometh] of thine hand, and [is] all thine own.
Psa 33:21 For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name.
Psa 103:1 [[[A Psalm] of David. Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, [bless] his holy name.
Psa 105:3 Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the LORD.
Psa 106:47 Save us, O LORD our God, and gather us from among the heathen, to give thanks unto thy holy name, [and] to triumph in thy praise.
Psa 145:21 My mouth shall speak the praise of the LORD: and let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever.
Eze 20:39 As for you, O house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; Go ye, serve ye every one his idols, and hereafter [also], if ye will not hearken unto me: but pollute ye my holy name no more with your gifts, and with your idols.
Eze 36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These [are] the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.
Eze 36:21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
and there's more at
Blue Letter Bible "holy name"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by jar, posted 04-27-2005 9:22 PM jar has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 206 of 305 (203181)
04-27-2005 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Faith
04-27-2005 9:33 PM


Re: God's name.
{EDIT: Or let me put it this way, you can call on God by a false name all you like, but He isn't going to hear it because it isn't His name.
Yeah, right. LOL
GOD is some bling-bling pimp daddy that's gonna get all upset because someone dissed him.
Sorry, but that's not GOD, that's some caricature, a joke.
GOD, a GOD that could create this universe, that understood intuitively the relationship between gravity and the weak nuclear force, that created a system as near perfect as Evolution, doesn't give a damn if some hairy ape that's handy with tools calls him GOD, Alah or Mike. To think he does is simply silly, asinine.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 04-27-2005 9:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 04-27-2005 10:11 PM jar has not replied
 Message 217 by Checkmate, posted 04-28-2005 10:35 AM jar has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 207 of 305 (203183)
04-27-2005 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by jar
04-27-2005 10:02 PM


Re: God's name.
Got it. You know who God is. 3500 years of Jews and Biblebelieving Christians don't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by jar, posted 04-27-2005 10:02 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by crashfrog, posted 04-27-2005 10:25 PM Faith has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 208 of 305 (203187)
04-27-2005 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
04-27-2005 10:11 PM


Re: God's name.
Meh. If it comes to that, you're all wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 04-27-2005 10:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 04-27-2005 10:34 PM crashfrog has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 209 of 305 (203191)
04-27-2005 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by crashfrog
04-27-2005 10:25 PM


Re: God's name.
And ANOTHER omniscient one is heard from. I don't think there's enough room in the universe for so many all-knowing gods.
This message has been edited by Faith, 04-27-2005 10:35 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by crashfrog, posted 04-27-2005 10:25 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by crashfrog, posted 04-27-2005 10:36 PM Faith has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 210 of 305 (203193)
04-27-2005 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Faith
04-27-2005 10:34 PM


Re: God's name.
And ANOTHER omniscient one is heard from.
Hey, I don't know anything about God, but when I see a whole lot of people who simply can't agree on even a single detail, you know what a rational person concludes? That none of them know what they're talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 04-27-2005 10:34 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Faith, posted 04-27-2005 10:38 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 215 by Checkmate, posted 04-28-2005 10:26 AM crashfrog has replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024