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Author Topic:   Constantly designed baramins and the evolving food chain
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5032 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 31 of 40 (200521)
04-19-2005 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by nator
04-19-2005 7:16 PM


The painting reference does seem to go beyond the topic in the thread which is about chains. But let the record show that Cantor thought it possible one day to compare a painting and a symphony cardinally. If there is an error in Mike's claim IN THIS THREAD it is only because by faith he seems to prefer harmony over the occassion. On the occasion a chain is designed by use of baramins then we would have the desginer and either the harmony as mike grants as a hypothesis or we will only have the occasional material and the blueprint.
quote:
A Device needs autonomy when you will not be nearby to handle or direct it. Thus, our planetary probes are largely autonomous, because direct control is technically impossible.
http://EvC Forum: Is it intelligent to design evolvable species? -->EvC Forum: Is it intelligent to design evolvable species?
I dont think that Contracycle is correct about this autonomically but I will get into that other thread stuff later. What I intend to write in that thread will go a ways towards a resolution of your
quote:
Unlike paintings, living things reproduce and create offspring all by themselves.
.
I cited Cantor in reference to asthetic taste because the art of the design is different than the natural purpose of the reproductive connections and Cantor's work beyond the organic explanation might be needed should the weakest link not be broken and the actual difference between ID and Biblical Creationism be apparent even to evos as easily as to creos.
This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 04-19-2005 06:59 PM

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 Message 30 by nator, posted 04-19-2005 7:16 PM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by mike the wiz, posted 04-19-2005 8:01 PM Brad McFall has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 32 of 40 (200528)
04-19-2005 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Brad McFall
04-19-2005 7:38 PM


Maybe harmony is the wrong word. I'm finding it hard to find an articulation of my thoughts at the moment. I can say that as I firstly said, the transitionals do show the baramins. There IS an big food chain IMHO, but its just a bit "more" than just a food chain, in that there must and surely is a whole plan pertaining to what species are on earth at any time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Brad McFall, posted 04-19-2005 7:38 PM Brad McFall has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Brad McFall, posted 04-19-2005 8:12 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 33 of 40 (200532)
04-19-2005 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by nator
04-19-2005 7:16 PM


Shraff, name the fallacy then.
We don't know who or what your Designer of nature is. We have never seen your creator create any life form the way we have seen people create paintings.
So you only come to a conclusion he doesn't exist because of your ignorance? An argument from ignorance?
But those evidences you call "transitionals" could be said to be many designed proves of the ultimate truths.
I think the absolute nature and truth of designer information in DNA is irrefutable anyway.
You are absolutely correct that paintings do not spring up all on their own.
You miss the point, which is a logical one I thought you might apreciate. The point is that, we know they were designed (the paintings), but a man in a field in a thousand years doesn't and might come to the conclusion that they happened randomly (like you).
Hey lil miss Shraffy - Brad likes it. Hah! Time to get your food chain baramin studies in biology. "wiz biology". Lmao.
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 04-19-2005 07:20 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by nator, posted 04-19-2005 7:16 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by nator, posted 04-20-2005 10:32 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5032 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 34 of 40 (200533)
04-19-2005 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by mike the wiz
04-19-2005 8:01 PM


I think harmony was the correct word. I think you simply underestimate the insistance that others will make until the chain is not just a thought. Anyway, it's your baby so sorry if my interdiction didnt help. No, I havent gotten to Tenneseeeee I'm in the tristate area, but I really like your idea that I might think to try to write it down to Wise someday.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by mike the wiz, posted 04-19-2005 8:01 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by mike the wiz, posted 04-19-2005 8:16 PM Brad McFall has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 35 of 40 (200534)
04-19-2005 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Brad McFall
04-19-2005 8:12 PM


No worries Brad, I'm glad of your interest, I feel you know a lot more than me, and I do have wild creative ideas. I had a "hunch" you might like this, as you Americanos say, "a hunch".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Brad McFall, posted 04-19-2005 8:12 PM Brad McFall has not replied

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 Message 37 by nator, posted 04-22-2005 10:22 AM mike the wiz has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 36 of 40 (200804)
04-20-2005 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by mike the wiz
04-19-2005 8:11 PM


quote:
Shraff, name the fallacy then.
"Begging the Question" is the fallacious argument you are using.
As this site, one of my all-time favorites explains so well, "it assumes the universe is designed in order to prove that it is the work of a designer."
We don't know who or what your Designer of nature is. We have never seen your creator create any life form the way we have seen people create paintings.
quote:
So you only come to a conclusion he doesn't exist because of your ignorance? An argument from ignorance?
No, this is not the "Argument from Ignorance."
This is the Argument from Ignorance:
Argument from Ignorance
(argumentum ad ignorantiam)
Definition:
Arguments of this form assume that since something has not been proven false, it is therefore true. Conversely, such an argument may assume that since something has not been proven true, it is therefore false.
I have never made the claim that God has not designed anything. I don't know if he did or didn't. I certainly don't see any evidence of his designing anything. Can you show me some?
quote:
But those evidences you call "transitionals" could be said to be many designed proves of the ultimate truths.
I think the absolute nature and truth of designer information in DNA is irrefutable anyway.
Wha??
You are absolutely correct that paintings do not spring up all on their own.
quote:
You miss the point, which is a logical one I thought you might apreciate. The point is that, we know they were designed (the paintings), but a man in a field in a thousand years doesn't and might come to the conclusion that they happened randomly (like you).
Doubtful.
We have artifacts from 10,000 ago years or more that we recognize as being been clearly and unambiguously made by humans.
Oh, and are you talking about randomness WRT the ToE?
Because there is another little element to the ToE that goes along with random mutation that living, reproducing things are subject to that paintings are not.
Can you remember what that little factor, that little important piece of the mechanism is? Come on, tell me what it is. You remember....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by mike the wiz, posted 04-19-2005 8:11 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 37 of 40 (201151)
04-22-2005 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by mike the wiz
04-19-2005 8:16 PM


bumpepty bump
bump

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by mike the wiz, posted 04-19-2005 8:16 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by mike the wiz, posted 04-22-2005 10:28 AM nator has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 38 of 40 (201154)
04-22-2005 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by nator
04-22-2005 10:22 AM


Re: bumpepty bump
Have you tried some cream on it?
I have a bump on my knee.
(back when I can)
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 04-22-2005 09:42 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by nator, posted 04-22-2005 10:22 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by nator, posted 04-29-2005 8:38 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 39 of 40 (203609)
04-29-2005 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by mike the wiz
04-22-2005 10:28 AM


Re: bumpepty bump
bebump bebump bebump

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by mike the wiz, posted 04-22-2005 10:28 AM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by nator, posted 05-01-2005 11:10 AM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 40 of 40 (204088)
05-01-2005 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by nator
04-29-2005 8:38 AM


Re: bumpepty bump
Miiiiiiiikeeeeeeee!
Where are you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by nator, posted 04-29-2005 8:38 AM nator has not replied

  
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