Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Should Sacred Studies be part of a general public school curricula
redseal
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 161 (204853)
05-04-2005 3:16 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Nighttrain
05-04-2005 2:37 AM


"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth." John 17:17-19
QED

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Nighttrain, posted 05-04-2005 2:37 AM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Nighttrain, posted 05-04-2005 4:11 AM redseal has not replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 32 of 161 (204864)
05-04-2005 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by redseal
05-04-2005 3:16 AM


Sorry, voodoo propaganda doesn`t cut it with me. Got anything else about satanic falsehoods like evolution?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by redseal, posted 05-04-2005 3:16 AM redseal has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 33 of 161 (204893)
05-04-2005 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by DrJones*
05-03-2005 5:07 AM


Why should any kind of religion, wether it be my one true one or your false one be taught in public schools?
IMHO religion, as opposesd to a specific religion, should be taught in schools simply because they play and have played such a major role in the history of the world.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by DrJones*, posted 05-03-2005 5:07 AM DrJones* has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by cmanteuf, posted 05-04-2005 10:23 AM jar has replied

  
cmanteuf
Member (Idle past 6766 days)
Posts: 92
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 11-08-2004


Message 34 of 161 (204927)
05-04-2005 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by jar
05-04-2005 7:52 AM


Jar writes:
IMHO religion, as opposesd to a specific religion, should be taught in schools simply because they play and have played such a major role in the history of the world.
Yes, this would be a very handy thing for everyone to understand. However, are there enough CR teachers out there to put one in every public high school? Actually, you would probably want more than one. My (public) high school offered a comparative religion course. It was a half-year elective, two classes taught by one teacher (the other half of the year was a philosophy course). Both sections were always overfull at ~40 students, but Mr. Lamb had five periods of English to teach- that was his primary job, the CR/Phil elective was a secondary interest.
How would we make sure that a CR course isn't "Indoctrination in whatever the teacher believes 101"? How would we make sure that it wasn't "Indoctrination against whatever the teacher dislikes 101"? That is difficult enough at the college level, where more detail and more sophistication in student thinking is expected, what would it do at the high school level?
Of course, religion can show up in other classes as well. My (Buddhist) AP Lit teacher had us read a bunch of books of the Bible so we could understand it from a literary point of view- we never discussed it in class, though, or wrote anything about it, just read it. My girlfriend's private religious school wouldn't let women teach biology because Paul (1 Timothy) says women should not hold authority over men in scriptural issues.
Chris

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 05-04-2005 7:52 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by jar, posted 05-05-2005 11:55 AM cmanteuf has not replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 161 (205234)
05-05-2005 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
05-03-2005 11:35 AM


In primary education, probably. In secondary education and college, no.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 05-03-2005 11:35 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by jar, posted 05-05-2005 9:46 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 36 of 161 (205240)
05-05-2005 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Andya Primanda
05-05-2005 9:38 AM


Since terms vary greatly between nations and cultures, what do you consider primary and secondary education?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Andya Primanda, posted 05-05-2005 9:38 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Tony650, posted 05-05-2005 10:16 AM jar has replied

  
Tony650
Member (Idle past 4032 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 37 of 161 (205250)
05-05-2005 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by jar
05-05-2005 9:46 AM


Jar, I've always wanted to know something. Where on Earth did you get your diverse religious education? I know you were raised a Christian so that one's a no-brainer, but where did you learn about all of the others that you're familiar with? Do you have any formal education in theology, world religions, etc or is it just the culmination of a lot of personal study?
Sorry if you've already explained this before but it's something I've wondered about for ages, and it's actually on-topic in this thread so I thought I'd ask.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by jar, posted 05-05-2005 9:46 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by jar, posted 05-05-2005 10:59 AM Tony650 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 38 of 161 (205258)
05-05-2005 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Tony650
05-05-2005 10:16 AM


Actually it began in Sacred Studies. LOL
When I was a little tyke my parents shipped me off to a Christian Boy's boarding school. I guess that's where most of the exposure began. As kids moved into Upper School (the equivalent of 6th. Grade in the US Public School System) they began exploring religion through Sacred Studies. It was called Sacred Studies to emphasize that it was NOT just Christian Dogma and Indoctrination.
Sacred Studies were yet another subject on its own, but was also woven into almost every other subject as well. When we studied Ancient History we read the Book of the Dead, examined the place of worship in Pheonician and Minoian civilizations, studied the Amarna Tablets and early Eastern writings. In math, when we studied Algebra we studied the part that the Muslim world played in creating our currently used arithmetic terminology. In science we touched on the observations and contributions from other religions, and the work of Mendel.
The religious studies program consisted of Chapel twice a week in the morning, Sunday bus to Old St. Paul's downtown, related studies in classes and Sacred Studies.
Sacred Studies itself began by examining Christianity and in particular, the Anglican Church. We read most of the early works, Luther, Wesley, the History of the CoE, studied the papacy down through the ages with lots of emphasis on Pope Gregory. Then, in succeeding years it expanded into philosophy, examining major religions, reading most of the Eastern teachers and lots of discussions.
It continued in informal discussions in the evenings (when you're stuck 24/7 on the top of a hill out in the country with little else to do, kids love discussing philosophy) at the various Masters houses. I was luck enough to have one Master who worked each summer on digs in the Middle East, so we also got an appreciation of what's involved.
In all, it was either the exact opposite of indoctrination or the most sophisticated example of such practice. You were NEVER told what to believe. Instead, every single belief you held was challenged constantly. And once you changed to a different POV, that was challenged. LOL
This message has been edited by jar, 05-05-2005 10:00 AM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Tony650, posted 05-05-2005 10:16 AM Tony650 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Tony650, posted 05-05-2005 12:13 PM jar has replied

  
Taqless
Member (Idle past 5913 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 39 of 161 (205266)
05-05-2005 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
04-27-2005 1:22 PM


This would be a great idea, but.....this is what happens nowadays in the 21st century when one attempts to be progressive at college level.
The whole point is that when it comes to religion there really is no quarter given to any other ideas or thoughts. It would be nice though for the same reasons Phatboy and PaulK listed: religion has played a huge role in the shaping of societies and cultures around the world and throughout history.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by jar, posted 04-27-2005 1:22 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 05-05-2005 11:42 AM Taqless has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 40 of 161 (205268)
05-05-2005 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Taqless
05-05-2005 11:37 AM


Yes, there are bigots out there. We even see them here. But is the best response to do as that Professor did and apologize or to begin teaching folk at an early age what IS religion?
Frankly, IMHO any belief system that is so weak it cannot withstand comparision and contrast with other systems is pretty hopeless.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Taqless, posted 05-05-2005 11:37 AM Taqless has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Taqless, posted 05-05-2005 2:56 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 41 of 161 (205271)
05-05-2005 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by cmanteuf
05-04-2005 10:23 AM


Some very important questions there.
How would we make sure that a CR course isn't "Indoctrination in whatever the teacher believes 101"? How would we make sure that it wasn't "Indoctrination against whatever the teacher dislikes 101"?
As in so many things, those issues would best be addressed by curiculun and testing.
The curiculum might include:
  • basic religions, the Judeao family, the Eastern Family, Indus Valley religions.
  • regional religions (in the US, American Indian beliefs as an example).
  • Philosophy (Greece to Kant)
  • the place Religion played in developing different cultures (this would vary based on geographic areas. For example, I'd imagine that in Indoneasia the arrival of Islam would be of greater significance than in the US)
Testing could also be objective. It would not be so much on what you believe as "What did Mencius say about ..."?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by cmanteuf, posted 05-04-2005 10:23 AM cmanteuf has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Minnemooseus, posted 09-04-2010 10:40 PM jar has replied

  
Tony650
Member (Idle past 4032 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 42 of 161 (205276)
05-05-2005 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by jar
05-05-2005 10:59 AM


Re: Actually it began in Sacred Studies. LOL
This was a Christian school? I must say, I'm stunned that they would give you exposure to such a varied gamut of religious and philosophical views. What a shame there was nothing like that available at my school when I was a "little tyke."
jar writes:
You were NEVER told what to believe. Instead, every single belief you held was challenged constantly. And once you changed to a different POV, that was challenged. LOL
Now that is how it should be! How I envy you. To be honest, I'm still kind of in shock that any Christian school would do this. It's certainly a breath of fresh air, I'll tell you. If you still see any of your old teachers these days, please shake their hands for me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by jar, posted 05-05-2005 10:59 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by jar, posted 05-05-2005 3:13 PM Tony650 has replied

  
Taqless
Member (Idle past 5913 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 43 of 161 (205319)
05-05-2005 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by jar
05-05-2005 11:42 AM


But is the best response to do as that Professor did and apologize or to begin teaching folk at an early age what IS religion?
My point was contrast a scenario where it's thought there should be more learning/open-mindedness going on and that one chooses courses based on an individual decision, not your parents' permission or control....whereas the time frame you seem to be proposing for this comparative analysis is at an age for the student where parents DEFINITELY have a say so and are typically more vocal against these types of subjects (we still can't get 100% attendance for Sex-Ed for god's sake!).
Frankly, IMHO any belief system that is so weak it cannot withstand comparision and contrast with other systems is pretty hopeless.
Maybe yours, jar, but you must not be talking about your garden-variety christianity because it is that WEAK and INSECURE.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 05-05-2005 11:42 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by jar, posted 05-05-2005 3:20 PM Taqless has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 44 of 161 (205330)
05-05-2005 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Tony650
05-05-2005 12:13 PM


Re: Actually it began in Sacred Studies. LOL
Actually, while it's no longer a boarding school, it's still quite active and their curriculum is online. Unfortunately, a simple listing of courses and objectives doesn't show the more subtle overlap and continuity.
But it was not unique, the kids at Boy's Latin (guess the affiliation) and Friends (guess again), Gilman and McDonough all recieved similar opportunities. McDonough was even a Military Prep (ask them where their horsie went in 1958), Gilman unaffiliated with any religion.
If you ever get to visit their chapel, the walls are covered with marble with the students names arranged by graduating class. Look at the lists from the BC side and maybe you can find mine.
They've modified the honor code since I was there. It is now five items. In my day it was only two, You will not lie, cheat or steal; and you will not tolerate others that do so. Any infringment of the honor code was dealt with by the Student Council and their decisions were binding on the student AND faculty.
AbE:
I hope I don't get to see many of my old teachers anytime soon. LOL
I much prefer being alive.
This message has been edited by jar, 05-05-2005 03:21 PM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Tony650, posted 05-05-2005 12:13 PM Tony650 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Tony650, posted 05-06-2005 10:53 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 45 of 161 (205333)
05-05-2005 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Taqless
05-05-2005 2:56 PM


... but you must not be talking about your garden-variety christianity because it is that WEAK and INSECURE.
Yes, unfortunately it is. We see that here constantly. There is a continuing parade of Christians that get all upset when their belief system is challenged. Many have said "If the Bible is not 100% true then there's nothing to believe in".
The question I'd ask you is, "If those people had been granted a chance from an earliy age to test and temper their beliefs by constant and rigorous comparision to other belief systems, would they behave the same?"
AbE:
As to sex-education, back when I was in school they hadn't invented sex yet so we missed out on it. They were building a new school down the hill from us and it was rumored to be a Girl's School. The only real indications though (and this might go under the heading of sex-ed) were the barbed wire fences, mine fields and guards with dogs.
This message has been edited by jar, 05-05-2005 02:22 PM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Taqless, posted 05-05-2005 2:56 PM Taqless has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Taqless, posted 05-05-2005 5:05 PM jar has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024