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Author Topic:   Why Darwinism is wrong
nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 63 of 305 (204071)
05-01-2005 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by TheNewGuy03
05-01-2005 12:36 AM


Re: LOL.
quote:
And I also know this: I have not come to this earth to die.
Everybody dies.
quote:
What you don't realize is that creation science actually agrees with most of evolutionary theory, sans macroevolution.
LOL!
Then it doesn't agree with evolutionary theory, because "macro" evolution is just regular evolution over long time scales.
Besides, you posit an unneded entity, so Creationism is less parsimonious as an explanation than plain old Biology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by TheNewGuy03, posted 05-01-2005 12:36 AM TheNewGuy03 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by TheNewGuy03, posted 05-02-2005 11:11 PM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 64 of 305 (204074)
05-01-2005 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by TheNewGuy03
05-01-2005 2:26 AM


Re: Yeah.
quote:
I never said things don't grow or change. I said that one species does not turn into another. That is the nature of genetics.
First of all, would you please be so kind as to define what you mean by "species"?
It's my understanding that these days most creation "science" groups have had to grudgingly admit that speciation occurs, simply because there is so much field and lab evidence for it. They have now just moved the goalposts to say that genus or family level evolution cannot occur.
I imagine that when humans have continually observed the evolutionary process long enough to see and record genus or family-level evolution, the goalposts will be moved again.
What is the barrier that would prevent many, many small changes in allele frequencies from accumulating over time so that eventually a new species would branch off from the parent species?
Show us.
quote:
A mutation is not another species.
No, it isn't.
quote:
It is a modification of an already-established species.
Actually, a mutation is a modification of an individual.
The mutation has to be either neutral or beneficial to spread throughout the population/species. A beneficial mutation will spread more quickly than a neutral one.
quote:
And most mutations are bad.
Actually, most mutations are neutral with regards to fitness. Mutations have to change a gene that controls the making of a protein to have an effect.
quote:
What is the likelihood of a successful mistake, dear Frog?
Well, we know mutations happen. You yourself have around 50-100 mutations, and around 3 that matter. all humans do.
And we know that the harmful ones are weeded out because those unlucky organisms don't reproduce successfuly, so the mutation doesn't spread throughout the population.
The neutral ones are just there, and of course, then we are left with the beneficial ones which do get spread throughout the population because they confer some benefit to success in reproduction.
Remember if a mutation is "beneficial" or not depends upon the environment in which the individual exists. If the environment changes, then what was "beneficial" before might be "detrimental" now.
Likewise, a "neutral" mutation might become "beneficial" if the environment changes to favor those individuals with that mutation.
Seems pretty straightforward, doesn't it?
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 05-01-2005 09:23 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by TheNewGuy03, posted 05-01-2005 2:26 AM TheNewGuy03 has replied

Replies to this message:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 120 of 305 (206012)
05-07-2005 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Jianyi Zhang
05-07-2005 10:41 PM


Re: getting it wrong and right
Jianyi, where did you earn your Biology degree, and what degree level are you at?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Jianyi Zhang, posted 05-07-2005 10:41 PM Jianyi Zhang has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Jianyi Zhang, posted 05-07-2005 11:50 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 124 of 305 (206078)
05-08-2005 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Jianyi Zhang
05-07-2005 11:50 PM


Re: getting it wrong and right
Who was your advisor, and can we read any of your published papers?
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 05-08-2005 07:52 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Jianyi Zhang, posted 05-07-2005 11:50 PM Jianyi Zhang has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Jianyi Zhang, posted 05-08-2005 10:58 AM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 143 of 305 (206248)
05-08-2005 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Jianyi Zhang
05-08-2005 10:58 AM


Re: getting it wrong and right
I am just interested in reading your other work.
Can you list a citation, please?
Also, who was your advisor for your PhD work?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Jianyi Zhang, posted 05-08-2005 10:58 AM Jianyi Zhang has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 163 of 305 (206688)
05-10-2005 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Jianyi Zhang
05-09-2005 7:51 PM


I guess you must have missed my message #143.
I'd really like to read some of the publicatons you have written as a PhD.
Please provide the citations.
Also, who was your PhD advisor?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Jianyi Zhang, posted 05-09-2005 7:51 PM Jianyi Zhang has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 172 of 305 (206802)
05-10-2005 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Jianyi Zhang
05-10-2005 11:56 AM


Please give me some citations for your published work.
Who was your PhD advisor?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Jianyi Zhang, posted 05-10-2005 11:56 AM Jianyi Zhang has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by JonF, posted 05-10-2005 3:12 PM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 178 of 305 (206988)
05-11-2005 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by Jianyi Zhang
05-10-2005 9:44 PM


Re: Heh.
Why are you not providing any citations to your publications?
I would very much like to read them.
Who was your Biology PhD advisor?
I am starting to think you maybe made a mistake when you said you have a PhD in Biology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Jianyi Zhang, posted 05-10-2005 9:44 PM Jianyi Zhang has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Wounded King, posted 05-11-2005 8:29 AM nator has replied
 Message 182 by Jianyi Zhang, posted 05-11-2005 9:12 AM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 181 of 305 (207006)
05-11-2005 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by Wounded King
05-11-2005 8:29 AM


Re: Heh.
True, but it would give us an idea of the honesty of our opponent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Wounded King, posted 05-11-2005 8:29 AM Wounded King has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 200 of 305 (207261)
05-11-2005 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Jianyi Zhang
05-11-2005 9:12 AM


Re: Heh.
[quote]My thesis or publication is about oncogene, somehow, my name was spelled wrong in the paper for PhD.
quote:
I use my real name here, it is insane to lie at front of public.
Besides PhD, I also have MS in preventive medicine. Since I do not think any of these degree related with the topic, I do not understand your motivation. Can you tell me what kind education you have?
Frankly, my motivation in asking you about your qualifications as a molecular biologist is because, in the past, many people who share your general views regarding Evolution whao have also claimed to have Biology degrees had not actually been truthful about having earned those Biology degrees, had not published any relevant research, etc.
While I definitely agree with the others whom have said that it's the strength of the argument, not the degree, that matters in debate, I still think it's important to get a good impression of the character of one's opponent.
So, when someone like you, who espouses views so completely outside the views of any reputable, professional Molecular Biologist I have ever read or known about, I simply begin to wonder if perhaps you are one of those people I mentioned above.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Jianyi Zhang, posted 05-11-2005 9:12 AM Jianyi Zhang has not replied

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