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Author Topic:   homosexuality
mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 5 of 239 (20743)
10-24-2002 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by nos482
10-24-2002 7:09 PM


quote:
Originally posted by nos482:
quote:
Originally posted by gene90:
You forgot to attack my church.
He's getting to that.

She, I think you'll find!
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
[This message has been edited by mark24, 10-24-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by nos482, posted 10-24-2002 7:09 PM nos482 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by nos482, posted 10-24-2002 8:28 PM mark24 has not replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 6 of 239 (20744)
10-24-2002 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by gene90
10-24-2002 3:48 PM


Hi Gene,
We’ve both been around here for a while now, & I’ve very much enjoyed your contributions. I have found your religious bias almost non-existent, up until the point that that you began discussing with Schraf, I couldn’t even tell you had religion! This is a good thing!
But I respectfully disagree with you that homosexuals are (please correct me) unnatural, wrong, or any other tab you want to apply, more than any other genotype.
quote:
The stongest evidence for a genetic contribution to sexual orientation has been provided by Dean Hamer & collaborators (Hamer et al. 1993; Hu et al. 1995; Hamer & Copeland 1994). When they interviewed a large sample of gay men, they found that a much higher proportion of their male relatives on the mothers side of the family than on the fathers side were gay. This pattern suggested that a gene or genes on the X chromosome might contribute to sexual orientation, since men inherit their SINGLE X chromosome from their mothers.
To test this hypothesis, researchers used the AFFECTED PAIRS METHOD (Weiss 1993) to search for X-liked genetic markers. This method tests the hypothesis that a trait shared by pairs of relatives is caused by an allele A’ at an yet umapped locus. Suppose, that a mother ‘s X chromosome genotype were AM1/A’M2 & a father’s genotype were AM1/y, where M1 & M2 are alleles at a marker locus. Fathers transmit Y chromosomes to their sons . If A & M are linked on the X chromosome & the recombination rate is r, then 1-r of the gametes of the AA’ mother will be non-recombinant, giving rise to affected (A’ bearing) offspring who also share M2. If r=0, then M marks the trait causing locus itself, & all of the affected siblings will carry the marker allele. A strong association of a trait with a marker thus indicates that a trait is indeed affected by a gene & provides directions to it’s location.
Hamer et al. Studied 40 pairs of brothers. Using 22 polymorphic DNA markers distributed over the length of the X chromosome, Hamer et al. found that about 50% concordance for several markers in a region (Xq28) near one end of the chromosome. In a later pair of 33 brothers, they found similar results, & also showed that significantly less than 50% of heterosexual brothers of these gay men shared shared the Xq28 markers- just as predicted by the genetic hypothesis.
(Evolutionary Biology. Douglas J Futuyma. 3rd Ed. Pp. 746)
So homosexuality has been shown to have at least one strong genetic correlation.
Cystic fibrosis is genetic (to name but a single example). Is that unnatural? Would you reserve the same feelings for these people as you would homosexuals?
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by gene90, posted 10-24-2002 3:48 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by nator, posted 10-24-2002 11:02 PM mark24 has not replied
 Message 10 by gene90, posted 10-25-2002 7:53 PM mark24 has replied
 Message 14 by gene90, posted 10-25-2002 8:23 PM mark24 has not replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 11 of 239 (20832)
10-25-2002 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by gene90
10-25-2002 7:53 PM


quote:
Originally posted by gene90:
[QUOTE][B]But I respectfully disagree with you that homosexuals are (please correct me) unnatural, wrong, or any other tab you want to apply, more than any other genotype[/QUOTE]
[/B]
Actually I'm more interested in the phenotype. I don't feel anyone should be criticized just for their genes. But for the record, I don't mean my commentary as a criticism. I'm simply defending my personal opinion.
Now, what people is their own choice, it isn't causing anyone any harm, but it is simply my personal moral stance that it isn't the 'right' thing to do.

How do people deny their phenotype? And if homosexuality actually IS a phenotype, how can you judge that behaviour, any more than having brown eyes etc etc?
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by gene90, posted 10-25-2002 7:53 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by gene90, posted 10-25-2002 8:18 PM mark24 has replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 15 of 239 (20870)
10-26-2002 5:27 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by gene90
10-25-2002 8:18 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark:
[B]How do people deny their phenotype?
Gene:
Through self-control.[/QUOTE]
[/B]
Perhaps I should have asked, WHY should they deny their phenotype, when they are harming no-one?
quote:
Originally posted by gene90:
Genetic predisposition to certain behaviors does not necessarily justify those behaviors. True, brown eyes are a phenotype. But so are violent rages and sociopathic behaviors, self-destructive tendencies, etc.
If simply being biologically inclined to being gay automatically makes it morally sound to be gay, then doesn't being biologically inclined to violence make whatever might happen in a violent outburst, morally acceptable as well.

True, but then people who have genetic disorders that harm others should be treated with understanding too, wouldn't you say? Or are you a lock-em-up-&-throw-away-the-key kind of a bloke? Regardless, it's neither here nor there, we are talking about people who do NOT harm others in any way, purely by dint of their sexuality.
Mark

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by gene90, posted 10-25-2002 8:18 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by nos482, posted 10-26-2002 7:48 AM mark24 has not replied
 Message 18 by gene90, posted 10-26-2002 1:15 PM mark24 has not replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 59 of 239 (21264)
11-01-2002 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by RedVento
11-01-2002 9:27 AM


quote:
Actually I do have dogs, and humping is not a sign of homosexuality, it is how dogs jocky for position withing the pack. Aggressive dogs(male or female) will hump others to show that they are higher in the pack heirarchy. My dog has been known to hump my cats for that very reason, unless you are going to tell me that my dog is both a lesbian AND into bestiality.
Curious. My ol' mum has 3 BITCHES, & two of them hump...... ME!!!!! Not Mum, not Dad, not my brother or sister, just me! Now, I do love those dogs (but not that much!), & probably make more of a fuss of them than most. Is it then indicative that they are putting me in my place? This is more disturbing than I first thought, I'm being usurped!
Oh well, there goes the "animal magnetism" theory......
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by RedVento, posted 11-01-2002 9:27 AM RedVento has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by John, posted 11-02-2002 10:39 AM mark24 has not replied
 Message 96 by Peter, posted 11-11-2002 8:07 AM mark24 has not replied

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