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Author | Topic: An educational angle we all could live with? (Philosophy of Science) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alasdair Member (Idle past 5771 days) Posts: 143 Joined: |
quote: I can see you haven't done your homework, or are just fond of using loaded terms like "Accidental" - evolution isn't 100% random. The random mutations are passed through the non-random filter of natural selection. Try it for yourself with a bucket of 100 pennies. Pour it out on a surface, and put all of the pennies that land tails up back into the bucket. They are dead. Pour out those pennies again, and repeat until you have all 100 pennies heads up. Oops! You've just produced an event that has a 1/(2^100) chance of happening..."by accident" ! By the way, what is the ID "interpretation of the evidence"? All I see is a giant argument from ignorance - I don't know how this worked, so Goddiddit! On another note, I think that the underlying philosophy behind the scientific method should be taught - ie, the methodology, etc. The schools do a crappy job of that as of yet, it should be taught in the first few weeks of every science class. But why on earth would ID be dragged into it? This message has been edited by Alasdair, May-17-2005 02:12 PM
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EZscience Member (Idle past 5176 days) Posts: 961 From: A wheatfield in Kansas Joined: |
Limbo writes: The big bang, the formation of the Earth, and of course, abiogenesis and then ToE. Its a package deal...no designer allowed...and the name of the package is ??? Secularism? Naturalism? Atheism? Darwinism? Whoever taught you this crap should be awarded an honorary PhD in brainwashing. You want to put a label on all of science as some sort of conspiracy against your religious beliefs ?
"..no designer allowed.." It's more like "no designer needed - please apply to the theology department". This message has been edited by EZscience, 05-17-2005 04:26 PM
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 499 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Alasdair writes: On another note, I think that the underlying philosophy behind the scientific method should be taught - ie, the methodology, etc. The schools do a crappy job of that as of yet, it should be taught in the first few weeks of every science class. But why on earth would ID be dragged into it?
Having been a tutor and TA for quite a while (don't worry, I'm a step closer to a phd everyday ), I am quite sure that students at a middle school and high school level are not mentally and intellectually equipped to start learning the philosophical standpoint behind science. I am convinced that it is better for them to criticize science out of ignorance than to hate science out of total shock. Perhaps such a curriculum is possible for gifted students... but I think that is still pushing it. I was in the gifted and talented academy in high school and graduated 6th.. (or was it 8th?) in my class. I studied with some of the brightest people I know. I can definitely tell you that many of us were not ready to study in depth the material regarding the matter that I began to study in college. In other words, I think it is better for high/middle school students to take a leap of faith about the matter before being expected to know the why's and the how's. Make sense?
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Limbo Inactive Member |
quote: Yes, it does. Perhaps schools could create their own optional summer courses, or workshops, or video presentations that parents could provide their kids with using vouchers or something. This message has been edited by Limbo, 05-17-2005 07:26 PM
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Limbo Inactive Member |
quote: Because ID is a variation of the underlying philosophy behind the scientific method.
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 499 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Actually, that's not a bad idea, although I really don't many kids benefiting from such a program. Besides, who would pay for it?
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 499 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
No, it is not. Do you or do you not agree that ID involves the supernatural? If so, then it is not science and should not be taught in science classes. If you answer no, then please suggest a way for us to measure the designer... like finding out how much it weighs.
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nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: What are the Theories associated with ID? What are it's testable predictions? What are the potential falsifications? What tests have been undertaken and what is the positive evidence that supports these theories of ID?
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nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: 1) What does the "philosophical implications" of any scientific theory have to do with it's validity? 2) Just what are these "philosophical implications" of Darwinism that you think exist, and what is your proof that they are commonly held among scientists and/or science teachers? 3) How does the fact that allele frequencies change in populations over time conflict with the day-to-day philosophies and social values of many people?
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nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
A reply to message #15 in this thread would be appreciated.
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nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
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Limbo Inactive Member |
quote: I find it ironic that you would mention Galileo. I would like to draw your attention to this: Page not found - Boundless
quote: quote: Well, then what are you so afraid of? Let the 'new kid on the block' try to show his stuff. MN is tough, it can take it.
quote: Well, Ill go ahead and tell the scientific community to let ID join the science club, since only official club members can be taken seriously enough to have their predictions tested. Cause if they arent 'members' then their predictions are rejected as 'pseudo-science', right? Why would science bother testing that? So, lets mail the ID people their 'super-secret mainstream science community decoder rings' and membership number right away, and then we will get down to business once everyone is in the clubhouse. Do you see my point?
quote: Sure would be nice is science fessed up and gave people a few good, solid ways to do this. How about an encyclopedia of ways to falsify it? Or how about you start a field of science whose job it is to falsify it? Yeah! Show us all how brave Darwinists are!
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9003 From: Canada Joined: |
Well, Ill go ahead and tell the scientific community to let ID join the science club, since only official club members can be taken seriously enough to have their predictions tested. That isn't the way it has worked for any other new idea. The proponents do the tests and demonstrate that there is some value in the idea. Then others attempt to reproduce the results to see if they still stand up. After all that the ideas are given some degree of consideration. It may take awhile, of course, science as always been pretty conservative. However, the ball is in the ID court. When they can find their racquet and give it a lobe over the net they might be taken a bit seriously. You can't expected to be taken seriously if you can't play the rough, tough game that the real scientists play.
So, lets mail the ID people their 'super-secret mainstream science community decoder rings' and membership number right away, and then we will get down to business once everyone is in the clubhouse. No ring is necessary, just do the dammed work! As for falsification of evolutionary theory this has been posted a bunch of time in various places in this board. I'm not sure you will get it if it is stated yet again. This message has been edited by NosyNed, 05-18-2005 01:17 AM
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Limbo Inactive Member |
quote: Well, thats fine, but how about if science quits excommunicating heretics who try to do the ID work in the meantime. If people werent so scared for thier career and reputation...but mainstream science intimidates them into silence. Follow the program or face the wrath of the high priests of Darwin! This message has been edited by Limbo, 05-18-2005 02:34 AM This message has been edited by Limbo, 05-18-2005 02:36 AM
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Limbo Inactive Member |
quote: Well, then perhaps you can tell me what science meant by this:
quote:
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