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Author Topic:   Creation of the Earth v.s. creation of man
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 5 of 57 (209484)
05-18-2005 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by HIStory
05-18-2005 6:47 PM


Can you state your resources?
yes. egyptian and sumerian records go back to nearly 5000 bc.
and we have evidence that man existed for sometime without the ability to write.

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Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 7 of 57 (209506)
05-18-2005 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Dead Parrot
05-18-2005 8:13 PM


Re: A bit over 6000...
hey, i never knew that. interesting.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 32 of 57 (220781)
06-29-2005 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by d_yankee
06-25-2005 4:16 PM


well, a written record that goes back 7000 years is pretty good evidence that man has existed for that long, with the ability to write. and that's pretty good evidence that the earth has existed that long too.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 46 of 57 (221226)
07-01-2005 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by d_yankee
07-01-2005 12:12 AM


Re: Again...
Evidence that you claimed there was writing 7000 BC.
actually, i said more than 7000 years old. that's different than 7000 bc by 2000 years. but chinese writing has been found that dates close to 7000 bc.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 50 of 57 (274579)
01-01-2006 4:07 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Jon
12-31-2005 6:08 AM


Okay, why on Earth must we find the oldest writings in order to date the existance of human beings? Shouldn't a fossil or two do the trick?
should. you have to remember, creationists don't believe in that sort of thing. fossils were just put there to trick us.
my point about earlier writing was kind of a facetious one. it's like a three year old claiming that nothing existed before they were born, and me pointing out that i've been in college longer than that. me being in college is a subset of the years of my life, which is a subset of this millenium, which is a subset of human history, which is a subset of the history of the earth. claiming that set that contains all others is a certain size can easily be refuted by showing that one subset is larger than the supposed size.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 51 of 57 (274580)
01-01-2006 4:14 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Jon
12-31-2005 4:06 PM


But how do we date the writings? Any dating method that gave a date prior to one accepted by Biblical literalists would be said to be "inaccurate".
internally, from the last date of change (by means of anachronism). for instance, we can date genesis to about 900-600 bc, in it's final version. EARLIEST dates are harder.
externally, from the oldest copy we have, or oldest mention in another sources. for instance, we can date genesis's oldest known copy to about 200 bc.
Furthermore, have not human beings been around much longer than our writing?
exactly.
And yes, we could use pottery and what not, but that would just show us the earliest pottery.
much of the earliest writing is pottery. the sumerians wrote on clay tablets.
Also, how would we date the pottery? I thought carbon dating was used on those sort of things to establish a general date.
carbon dating is only for organic matterial. besides, pottery is fired, which i'm pretty sure messes c-14 up. pottery is used as a guideline for dates. we know which periods and cultures in history made certain kinds of pottery based on where and when we find them. then when that piece of pottery is found elsewhere, we have a good stab when the site was occupied, and by whom. seems a little circular, i know. but it's not the only method of determining a date, and it's generally confirmed.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 56 of 57 (275621)
01-04-2006 4:30 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Jon
01-02-2006 6:13 AM


I'm not sure what you are saying about the dating of Genesis, since 900 BC is further back than 200 BC, but I understand the rest.
other evidence (histories etc) lets us know that genesis was part of a translation (lxx) done from about 300-200 bc. our oldest fragment of genesis from the lxx is about 1st century bc. so we KNOW, point of fact, that genesis was compiled prior to that point.
internal textual evidence points to a date between 900 and 600 bc for at least one source. other sources might be older, and some anachronisms might be later redaction. but there's no real way to tell.
This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 01-04-2006 04:31 AM

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 57 of 57 (275622)
01-04-2006 4:37 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Discreet Label
01-03-2006 6:40 PM


An example of this would be any history textbook that labeled San Jose as the current capital of the state of California. Since San Jose was the capital 1850-1854 the history book would then have to be written at latest in 1854.
well, not exactly. we could conclude that the source the author was looking at was written between 1850 and 1854. the author might have been writing afterward, but just unaware (and stupid?) but certainly not before.
it's worse with books that editted together. so we could have a book of short stories, one of which takes places in the capital of californian, san jose. the book itself might have been compiled three days ago, but the short story was evidently written after about 1850.
the bible is a compiled book.

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