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Author Topic:   $250,000 Evolution Challenge Accepted!
johndcal
Inactive Junior Member


Message 1 of 9 (19026)
10-03-2002 9:14 PM


A long-standing offer to prove evolution has recently been accepted by John D. Callahan, a theistic evolutionist and president of Faith & Reason Ministries: Reconciling Christianity with Accepted Science, http://www.faithreason.org/ . The offer is being made by Dr. Kent Hovind, a young-Earth creationist and leader of Creation Science Evangelism, http://www.drdino.com/ .

Dr. Hovind's challenge has been a rallying cry for creationists, and he asserts few, if any, legitimate inquires have been made -- and certainly no proof. However, evolutionists contend Dr. Hovind is not open to empirical evidence and scientific method. In an open letter to Dr. Hovind, Callahan claims to concisely prove evolution consistent with belief in God. The letter may be viewed at http://www.faithreason.org/ .

Direct link to letter is http://www.faithreason.org/farmprov.htm - A.M.

[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 10-03-2002]


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by TrueCreation, posted 10-04-2002 4:44 PM johndcal has not yet responded
 Message 9 by Brad McFall, posted 10-29-2002 11:30 AM johndcal has not yet responded

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 9 (19086)
10-04-2002 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by johndcal
10-03-2002 9:14 PM


"Dr." Hovinds offer is nothing but an endless game of semantics. Ross's[?] ministry will not get anywhere with him as no one else has. Lets hope the Faith & Reason ministry isn't joining with Hovinds irrelevant use of 'proof'.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by johndcal, posted 10-03-2002 9:14 PM johndcal has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by mark24, posted 10-05-2002 6:01 AM TrueCreation has responded

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 3304 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 3 of 9 (19099)
10-05-2002 6:01 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by TrueCreation
10-04-2002 4:44 PM


Hi all,

They won't win, the rules are rigged. In fact, they shouldn't have accepted, they will now be able to say "evolution has failed the test" or somesuch.

Mark

------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by TrueCreation, posted 10-04-2002 4:44 PM TrueCreation has responded

Replies to this message:
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TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 9 (19136)
10-05-2002 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by mark24
10-05-2002 6:01 AM


"They won't win, the rules are rigged. In fact, they shouldn't have accepted, they will now be able to say "evolution has failed the test" or somesuch."
--My point exactly.

------------------


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 Message 3 by mark24, posted 10-05-2002 6:01 AM mark24 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by gene90, posted 10-05-2002 7:28 PM TrueCreation has not yet responded

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 1932 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 5 of 9 (19138)
10-05-2002 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by TrueCreation
10-05-2002 7:21 PM


I agree. This will only serve Hovind.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by TrueCreation, posted 10-05-2002 7:21 PM TrueCreation has not yet responded

  
YEC
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 9 (19311)
10-08-2002 10:24 AM


I think the simple solution would be to take Hovind to court.

This way the evidences can be presented in a forum in which Hovind has no control over.

The problem would be for the evolutionist to actually present the evidences.

Considering all of the evidence the evolutionist claim they have it should be an easy $250,000....minus what the lawyers take.


Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by gene90, posted 10-08-2002 9:46 PM YEC has not yet responded

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 1932 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 7 of 9 (19346)
10-08-2002 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by YEC
10-08-2002 10:24 AM


I'm no lawyer but that doesn't sound possible.

For one, Hovind can have a puppet court of "scientists" to review the evidence. While many individuals have searched for these "scientists" no evidence for their existance has ever been found. Of course if Hovind were put in a tight place he could pull his "experts" from somewhere like ICR or another organization that declares that evolution is wrong no matter what the actual evidence states.

Further, I think the $250k does not exist given Hovind's long history of run-ins with the law, which even includes criminal acts. In short, let somebody else do it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by YEC, posted 10-08-2002 10:24 AM YEC has not yet responded

  
johndcal
Inactive Junior Member


Message 8 of 9 (20513)
10-22-2002 6:30 PM


Update: $250,000 Evolution Challenge Accepted!

As of October 21, 2002 Dr. Hovind has not responded -- let alone awarded the $250,000 prize to Callahan.

Maybe the check is in the mail?

Maybe Dr. Hovind is waiting until he resolves his legal problems?

Maybe Dr. Hovind is humbly and carefully preparing his statement to the world admitting he was wrong about evolution?

Excerpt from "$250,000 Evolution Challenge Accepted!" letter:

"First consider biological evolution. Besides innumerable transitional fossils -- dating billions of years to very primitive forms -- there are many living species (of the millions on Earth) and breeds that are obvious cousins and direct descendants of one another. An illustration is the domestic dog, which can produce a generation 30 times faster than man. From gray wolf populations the domestic dog has evolved (naturally and via human intervention) into dozens of species and hundreds of breeds (enormous gene pool) over the last 10,000 years. These are more than minor variations and indicative of macroevolution. Further, since a gray wolf has evolved into a pug dog, an ape has surely evolved into a Homo erectus and then a man."

The letter may be viewed at http://www.faithreason.org/ .

Direct link to letter is http://www.faithreason.org/farmprov.htm .


  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 3142 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 9 of 9 (21020)
10-29-2002 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by johndcal
10-03-2002 9:14 PM


The difficulty of such "proove" is first why would the axiom development in math be presumed to be able to provide such (if at all).

That seems to be claim if at every against HOvind I glean from NO detailed info or knoweldge of the links.

2)Assuming the game/challenge wAS FAIR? THIS APPROVED would be approached (unconditionally etc) from showing how chance rooted some biogeography ON THE PRESENT MAP and then paleogeographcally projected but this project is MORE difficult than the Science that lead Kant to his whole philosophy (turning of Earth). Not even Marxism is up to this post-globalization job. Once a distribution IN EXISING SPACE was inventoried then the tiring job of trying out the trajectories makes a three body problem look like kids play but who knows maybe some one can by wit make a rule in a cellular automata that "evolves" time such that the appearence of THE PAST appears and we are back once again at the statement that neither evolution or creation can be science/observed because they happened in the past and no emulation is ever a fidelty simulation even.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by johndcal, posted 10-03-2002 9:14 PM johndcal has not yet responded

    
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